Pro and Con 843

Posted 12-7-01

I am so thankful to have 8 different Bible versions, Strong's references and more on e-Sword, all free. The man who made it possible, Rick Meyers, has been laid off. Here is his URL and e-mail address: -
There are about 50,000 Christians in Indonesia that are about to be massacred by the Muslim Jihad. They need our prayers.

Incoming email

FWD from Jim Bramlett
This is sickening -- Islamic (the "peaceful" religion) jihad against Christians. I feel so helpless. But let us pray and notify others as you feel led. Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Hammond
Subject: The massacre is beginning - please, please pray Importance: High

..."The village of Sepe, one of the last Christian strongholds has fallen and is being looted, destroyed and burned to the ground by the jihad terrorists, even as I type and the village of Silanca is under attack. Reports from the fleeing villagers state that military units have joined in with the jihad terrorists in attacking the villages and the fleeing villagers who fled to the military barracks in Kawua are being turned away by the military even as I type this email. The next section comes from reports to the Jakarta Post. Other eyewitness accounts point to scores of dead and thousands of mainly-Christian homes destroyed at the hands of well organized, uniformed militia equipped with machine-guns, rocket launchers and even bulldozers. Father Jimmy, told The Jakarta Post by telephone from Tentena, abo ut 40 kilometers south of Poso town, on Friday that more than 50,000 residents and refugees were in danger of fresh attacks after extremist militia bombarded the villages of Betalemba, Patiwunga, Tangkura, Sanginora and Debua over the last three days. "All houses and other buildings in Sanginora and Debua were flattened when the terrorist groups attacked the two villages on Thursday. They are nearing Tentena where around 50,000 villagers from Betalemba, Patiwunga and Tangkura are taking refuge"...

Interesting picture on Astronomy Picture of the Day 12-7-01

A forerunner of the "great mountain burning with fire" that will be cast into the Mediterranean Sea on the Day of God's Wrath

Mediterranean Leonid 2001

New laws will turn EU into a superpower, says Prodi
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Brussels;$sessionid$VOVEAVAAAGAUBQFIQMGSFFOAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2001/11/13/wprod13.xml
Filed: 13/11/2001 - ROMANO PRODI, the president of the European Commission, wants Brussels to take far-reaching new powers over government spending, foreign policy, defence and police to try to transform the European Union into a global superpower.

Mr Prodi called for sweeping changes in defence and internal security, saying the terrorist attacks on September 11 had changed the political landscape and made it imperative to accelerate the pace of European integration.

In a move certain to meet stiff resistance from London and Paris, he called for "the entire foreign and security policy of the union" to be brought under EU control, saying that "piecemeal" diplomacy was preventing the union from playing its full role in the world.

Incoming email

Re: Looking for Jesus
I look forward to reading your site every day even though it's been many months since I last corresponded with you. I am really excited realizing that I will soon see my precious Savior as I believe the Rapture is VERY SOON.

I am appalled at all the "Born Again" Christians that seem to have a ho-hum attitude about the Rapture. I feel sad when they quote "No one Knows..." When mediating on this, the Lord brought Hebrews 9: 27 - 28 to mind. I looked it up in several translations. I'm quoting from the Jewish New Testament translated by David H Stern.

"Just as human beings have to die once, but after that comes judgment: so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to deliver those who are EAGERLY WAITING FOR HIM."

This sounds like the Rapture to me. Is that how you interpret it?

After the first glorious praise service when I fully realize the enormous price Jesus paid for my redemption, I want to see my loved ones, and then I want to see you, Marilyn, and give you a big hug. Thanks for the many, many hours you've put into informing, answering questions, and encouraging so many of us. MARANATHA!

My reply

Sorry to be so long answering. Thanks so much for sending this. Heb. 9:27,28 (CJB) sure sounds like the Rapture to me too.

Verse 28 in the KJV says, "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear (optanomai, show self; ek, from, out of place or time) the second time without sin unto salvation (soteria, RESCUE). Agape

Incoming email

Well, it took 1.5 weeks to flush out my machine. WARNING!!!!!!: There's more to this worm than McAffee or Norton or anyone else that I'm aware of is telling. It infects in successive "waves", storing itself in successive sets of different file names. The intructions at McAffee and Norton only specify one set of file names ... and these may or may not be correct! Likewise, the various removal tools seem to be looking for specific file names ... which may or may not be the file names on a particular machine. What we have, then, is a descending series of trojan horses. Remove the first level ... and you're still infected. Likewise the second and so forth. The lower levels could even be a time delayed bomb, set to go off at a future point in time.

I've switched to Norton 2002, which monitors both incoming and outgoing email. It took about ten successive full system scans to completely flush my machine.

The MORAL of this is: Don't assume you're clean until you've done a number of successive full system scans. The anti-virus programs seem to tag only one generation at a time. Agape

My reply

Thanks for the warning. I haven't received any copies of the new W32/Goner@MM virus so far, but I am watching for it and not opening any attachments. Agape My note: I just remembered how that particular virus dropped a file in the Temporary Internet folder when I clicked on it to delete it. I then had to run my AVG antivirus program to get rid of the dropped file also. Now I don't click on any suspect e-mails. I click Reply to the e-mails before and after the virus copy so I won't lose them. Then I click on the one before the virus and shift-click on the one after the virus. That selects all 3 without my having to click on the virus. Then I delete all three. If I have no e-mail after the virus, I go online and send myself a web page, come back and finish with this method of selecting and Delete, Empty Delete folder, Compact Folders twice. When I do it this way, then run the AVG antivirus program, it doesn't find any other virus files.

Incoming email

Re: Speed it up
2 Peter 3:12
Is it possible we can effect Christ's coming, i.e., speeding it up? Is that what this Scripture means?

My reply

The Jamieson, Faussett and Brown Commentary (JFB) says, "2Pe 3:12 - hasting unto--with the utmost eagerness desiring [WAHL], praying for, and contemplating, the coming Saviour as at hand. The Greek may mean "hastening (that is, urging onward [ALFORD]) the day of God"; not that God's eternal appointment of the time is changeable, but God appoints us as instruments of accomplishing those events which must be first before the day of God can come. By praying for His coming, furthering the preaching of the Gospel for a witness to all nations, and bringing in those whom "the long-suffering of God" waits to save, WE HASTEN THE COMING OF THE DAY OF GOD. The Greek verb is always in New Testament used as neuter (as English Version here), not active; but the Septuagint uses it actively. Christ says, "Surely I come quickly. Amen." OUR PART IS TO SPEED FORWARD THIS CONSUMMATION BY PRAYING, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev_22:20)." (caps for emphasis mine)

I disagree. I don't think we can speed it up one speck. Things will happen when the Lord planned for them to happen, and he made those plans before the world began. We are speeding toward the Day of God, which is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, but we can't speed up or slow down the rotation of the Earth. The Lord will shorten the Great Tribulation, but he put that in the plans to start with.

2 Peter 3:7,10-13 says, "the HEAVENS (atmospheric) and the EARTH, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition (apoleia, destruction) of ungodly men....But the day of the Lord (the Millennium) will come as a thief in the night; in the which the HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY WITH A GREAT NOISE, and the ELEMENTS SHALL MELT with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up (it's the Day of God's Wrath). Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting (speudo, speeding on) unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the HEAVENS BEING ON FIRE shall be dissolved, and the ELEMENTS SHALL MELT with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for NEW HEAVENS and a NEW EARTH, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

I think the Lord will refresh the atmospheric heavens and the Earth to make it a fit habitat for mankind during the Millennium. Agape

Incoming e-mail

From: Finland, Subject: Rev 10:3-4
Do you know what Rev 10:3-4 means?

"And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

Why "write them not", why not?! What did those thunders say then, it seems so stupid that they say something, but you can't know what. What's the meaning of this? These passages seem so irrelevant, but i know that they're not. Please tell me if you know anything..May God bless you and Ed

My reply

Isa 28:13 shows us that we have to compare scriptures that mention like things. The whole story is not in one place so the unbeliever will not understand. It says, "the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

"Let's see what we can find out concerning the voices of the 7 thunders in similar passages. The time is when the 7th trumpet sounds and "the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets (Rev. 10:7). We are to compare scriptures that describe that same time.

Rev. 11:15-19 tells us what happens that day. "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. This is the 1st day of Christ's kingdom, the millennial Day of the Lord. It is the day of His Coronation, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ. Rewards are given to the saints in Heaven, and God's Wrath is given unbelievers on Earth.

Continuing, "And the four and twenty elders (12 patriarchs of Israel and 12 apostles), which sat before God on their seats (thrones, as in 4:4), fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty (Christ, Rev. 1:8, Isa. 9:6), which art (on Coronation Day), and wast (at the 1st Advent), and art to come (at the 2nd Advent, still 7 months future, Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament (with 2 stone tablets with the 10 commandments written on them in it): and there were lightnings, and voices, and THUNDERINGS, and an EARTHQUAKE, and great HAIL." This is when the 2 asteroids (prefigured by the 2 stone tablets) of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth. The noise of the impacts will be heard around the Earth. The Earth itself is moved. Jer 50:46 says, "At the NOISE of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is HEARD AMONG THE NATIONS."

Psa 29:3-11 seems to suggest what the 7 thunders represent. It says, "(1) The VOICE OF THE LORD is upon the waters: the God of glory THUNDERETH: the LORD is upon many waters (one asteroid hits the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5). (2) The VOICE OF THE LORD is powerful; (3) the VOICE OF THE LORD is full of majesty. (4) The VOICE OF THE LORD breaketh the cedars; yea, the LORD breaketh the cedars of Lebanon. He maketh them also to skip like a calf (in the earthquake); Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn. (5) The VOICE OF THE LORD divideth the flames of fire (especially when the binary asteroid breaks apart). (6) The VOICE OF THE LORD shaketh the wilderness; the LORD shaketh the wilderness of Kadesh. (7) The VOICE OF THE LORD maketh the hinds to calve, and discovereth the forests: and in his temple doth every one speak of his glory. The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, THE LORD SITTETH KING (it's Coronation Day in Heaven) for ever. The LORD will give strength unto his people; the LORD will bless his people with PEACE."

Isa. 29:5-7 says, "it shall be at an instant suddenly. Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with THUNDER, and with EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT NOISE, with STORM and TEMPEST, and the flame of devouring FIRE. And the multitude of all the nations (Gog's army) that fight against Ariel, (Jerusalem) even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision."

In 1Pe 5:8, we are told to "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the DEVIL, AS A ROARING LION, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour." On the Day of God's Wrath, the LORD will roar like a young lion roaring on his prey. Pro 19:12 says, "The KING'S WRATH is as the ROARING OF A LION; but his favour is as dew upon the grass." Isa 31:4,5 says, "Like as THE LION AND THE YOUNG LION ROARING ON HIS PREY, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6) COME DOWN TO FIGHT FOR MOUNT ZION, and for the hill thereof. As birds FLYING, SO WILL THE LORD OF HOSTS DEFEND JERUSALEM; defending also he will deliver it; and PASSING OVER he will preserve it." The Second Advent is still 7 months in the future (Eze. 39:12,13).

Isa 42:13 says, "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: HE SHALL CRY, YEA, ROAR, HE SHALL PREVAIL AGAINST HIS ENEMIES." God bless. Agape

Incoming email

Re: parable of the ten virgins
I have often wondered one thing about this parable: how is it that the bridegroom is coming to marry ten women? I thought when the marriage contract was made with the bride's father, it was between the bridegroom and one woman. If these virgins are to accompany the bride, where does the bride appear in this parable? Just wondering. I hope you arewell, as well as Ed and family. Every day I am anticipating hearing that great voice! Blessings to you. Love

My reply

Jesus was teaching about the Bride of Christ, which is counted as one body. All are part of the Body of Christ. "Eph 4:4,5 says, "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism." The five virgins that went with the Bridegroom are the Bride. In the OT, Israel was betrothed to the Lord. Of the living, the 144,000 Israelites of Rev. 7 seem to be added to the Bride group, for they are virgins without fault before the throne of God (Rev. 14:4,5). Blessings and agape

Incoming email

I thought you might be interested in the following.

Here in West Texas, we have an incredible Christian TV Network located in Midland/Odessa, called Prime Time Christian Broadcasting....they had a two night, 5-6 hour update, from a Rabbi from Israel who is involved with The Temple Institute. The group he is with is involved in getting all the Temple items ready for the next Temple.

He stated they have already completed ALL of the required vessels so that they could even begin Temple services if the Temple were restored today. This includes the Menorah, which cost them over $500,000 to complete. I can imagine. He also showed the COMPLETED, engraved stones for the Breastplate and on the shoulders, already placed in gold settings.

It was pretty incredible. Anyway, they are in the process of weaving the High Priest's inner and outer garments, which is a very intricate weave, having already secured the correct dye colors for the threads which are colored. They are also beginning work on the Ephod, which actually holds the Breastplate in place, etc. He also showed completed gold bells, which will go around the fringe of the High Priest's garment.

He also stated that the previous Red Heifer, Melody, was disqualified, but they already have 2 more that have ALREADY been qualified, in addition to the qualified Priest who will sacrifice the Red Heifer. He further stated everything should be completed, regarding the High Priest's garments, and the Priest's garments, in about 5 months. Something else which he stated which was kind of interesting, is that there are many, although not millions, of Jews who can trace their ancestry back a long, long way, due to individual families' meticulous recording. Like to King David. He stated that just recently in Jerusalem, there was a large convention where people came to share their records, etc. A geneology convention, I believe.

He also stated that after the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 A.D., that the Priests that were left, as in not killed but scattered, still kept their appointed time to serve in the Temple, in private, thus helping to maintain tribal identity. He also stated that the new DNA testing was obviously going to help as well.

While he stressed that they were doing this because it is what God commands, he did say that they also knew/believed that once everything was ready, that that would certainly mean that Messiah was near.

It seems as though there is an incredible spiritual awakening going on with many Jews. And just in time.

He did say one thing which I am not real clear on. He stated that the King Messiah will be from the branch of David. Ok, that's Christ Jesus. But then he stated that God made a covenant with Aaron, stated in the Torah, that his descendants would be the High Priestly line forever. What implication does that hold for Christians (i.e., I thought Christ Jesus was/is our High Priest)? Agape.

My reply

There are two orders of high priests, the order of Aaron and the order of Melchisedec.


Hebrews makes it clear that Christ is our High Priest. Heb 2:17 says, "Wherefore in all things it behoved him (Jesus Christ) to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful HIGH PRIEST in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

Heb 3:1: "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and HIGH PRIEST of our profession, Christ Jesus."

Heb 4:15: "For we have not an HIGH PRIEST which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Christ).

Heb 5:1,4,5,10: "For every HIGH PRIEST taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins....And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was AARON. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an HIGH PRIEST; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee....Called of God an HIGH PRIEST after the order of Melchisedec."


Concerning Aaron, Ex 27:21 says, "In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, AARON and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: IT SHALL BE A STATUTE FOR EVER UNTO THEIR GENERATIONS on the behalf of the children of Israel.

Ex 29:9: "thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron (anointed as high priest with anointing oil, Ex. 9:7) and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and THE PRIEST'S OFFICE SHALL BE THEIRS FOR A PERPETUAL STATUTE: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons."

Exo 29:29 "the holy garments of Aaron shall be his sons' after him, to be anointed therein, and to be consecrated in them."

Lev 21:10: "he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes."

I just had a thought. Saddam won't let the UN inspectors into Iraq now. When they move the headquarters to Babylon, they should be able to keep closer tabs on Iraqi weapons. Agape

Incoming email

Re: salvation
iam interested in end time prophecy and mainly follow hal lindsay and jvim. iam excited about your rapture calculation...come Lord Jesus!

but its no good to have a escape if you are not one of the escapees, so i ask you this respectfully. do you beleive that one cannot lose their salvation after they are born again of the Holy Spirit? i thought that is what you said in the foolish virgin parallel was that one cannot lose salvation. does 2 (I) peter 3:20-22 tell that even the saved can lose salvation. i look forward to your insight

My reply

Sorry to be so long in answering. I'm sure hoping for the Rapture before Dec. 19. There is a chance that it could be Dec. 10, first day of Hanukkah, or Dec. 13. That is the date on the Jewish Calendar when it stopped raining in Noah's day. The Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37).

I don't think we can lose our salvation. We can lose our chance to be part of the Bride group, but not our salvation. It looks like the Pre-Trib Rapture is for the Bride of Christ. The foolish Laodicean saints are to be left behind the 1st time. Jesus said that he would never leave us. If we are sealed with the Spirit of Christ, and he doesn't leave us, our salvation is sure. Rom 8:9 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." If we have Him, we are saved

All Tribulation saints will be caught up at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. The 144,000 Israelites must be added to the Bride group, for they are virgins without fault before the throne of God (Rev. 14:4,5).

> > does 2 (I) peter 3:20-22 tell that even the saved can lose salvation

Those were never saved. They were "spirits in prison: Which sometime were disobedient when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." At that time, "GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" Gen. 6:5). Agape

Incoming email

Re: rapture
Hi there, hope you don't mind me saying but, the rapture is not biblical. have you missed text that tell us that every eye will see the second coming?

My reply

The Rapture is not the Second Coming. At the Rapture, Jesus does not set his feet on Earth. We rise up to meet him in the clouds. At the Second Advent, "his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south" (Zech. 14:4).

Have you missed I Thess. 4:16,17? It says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The Lord keeps his promises and prophecies.

The next verse says, "comfort one another with these words." The Rapture will be the escape from the 7-year trial that will come upon all the world to try those that are on Earth (Rev. 3:10). That thought is comforting. If there was no Rapture, that would not be comforting. I hope you can receive this comfort.

The Rapture is the big ESCAPE. Luke 21:35,36 says, "take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so THAT DAY (OF THE RAPTURE) come upon you UNAWARES. For as a snare (TRAP) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, THAT YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE (ekpheugo to flee out, escape) ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN."

The Weymouth New Testament says, "take heed to yourselves, lest your souls be weighed down with self-indulgence and drunkenness or the anxieties of this life, and that day come upon you, suddenly, LIKE A FALLING TRAP." I hope you won't be in that trap. Agape

   Pro and Con 844   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1996-2001, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 12-7-01