Pro and Con 852

Posted 12-31-01

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Re: Another Day
I have been thinking for some time now about how you have so skillfully placed your timeline to fit in with current events and biblical prophecy. I believe that the Jewish leap-year in 2007-08 is the anchor on which your current timeline rests. If you could, would you take a moment and erase all references to the current coming Jewish leap-year. What would the next viable Jewish leap-year be that you could fit everything on your timeline into?

My reply

I don't know yet. I'll search again. When I did it many years ago, I lived in La Mirada, within bike riding distance of the BIOLA library. Since we have moved, and as much as that book is checked out, I hate to make the long drive. The last few times I have been there, the book was not on the shelf.

Just today (Dec. 28), I got copies of the Hebrew Calendar for additional years up to 2020 from: http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/corre/calendar

These are Jewish leap years, when there are 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) between the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1 to the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1. 5768 (2007-2008)
5771 (2010-2011)
5774 (2013-2014)
5776 (2015-2016)
5779 (2018-2019)
5782 (2021-2022)

If you want to figure leap years past this, the last 19-year cycle began Tishri 1, 5758 (10-2-1997). Leap years are years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 19. 5868 is #11 in the 19-year cycle.

For this search, I'll assume that the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 means the shortened Tribulation, as I figured in the beginning. V. 23 is when the False Prophet stands up. He is revealed when he confirms the covenant (Dan. 9:27) as the Tribulation begins. Dan. 8:23 says, "when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up." Therefore, the 2300 days seem to start at the beginning of the Tribulation, when the False Prophet is revealed as he confirms the covenant of Dan. 9:27.

In Dan. 8:25, The False Prophet "shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Christ); but HE SHALL BE BROKEN WITHOUT HAND." The day this idol shepherd is wounded by the asteroid of Rev. 8:10, his right arm is dried up and his right eye blinded (Zech. 11:17). That will be the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets. V. 26 says, "And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told (in v. 14) is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days." V. 14 literally says, mornings and evenings, i.e., 2300 literal days, as in Gen. 1:5. Therefore, I will count and see if a 2300-day shortened Tribulation that ends on the 1st day of a Jewish Leap Year fits anywhere else.

Since from Pentecost, Sivan 6, in 2001 to Tishri 1, 2007 is 2300 days, I will also assume that the Tribulation starts on Pentecost. Here are the number of days between Pentecost and Trumpets 6 years later.
Pentecost (Sivan 6) to Trumpets (Tishri 1) 7 years later by inclusive reckoning. Leap years are bold face.
5761 (05-28-2001) - 5768 (09-13-2007) = 2300 days - leap year
5762 (05-17-2002) - 5769 (09-30-2008) = 2329 days
5763 (04-03-2003) - 5770 (09-19-2009) = 2362 days
5764 (05-26-2004) - 5771 (09-09-2010) = 2298 days
5765 (04-10-2005) - 5772 (09-29-2011) = 2364 days
5766 (06-02-2006) - 5773 (09-17-2012) = 2300 days - not a leap year - X
5767 (05-23-2007) - 5774 (09-05-2013) = 2298 days
5768 (06-09-2008) - 5775 (09-25-2014) = 2300 days - not a leap year - X
5769 (05 29-2009) - 5776 (09-14-2015) = 2300 days - leap year
5770 (05-19-2010) - 5777 (10-03-2016) = 2330 days
5771 (06-08-2011) - 5778 (09-21-2017) = 2298 days
5772 (05-27-2012) - 5779 (09-10-2018) = 2298 days
5773 (05-15-2013) - 5780 (09-30-2019) = 2330 days
5774 (05-30-2014) - 5781 (19-09-2020) = 2305 days

Note: An extended chart is on Pro and Con 853.

Only 2 of these end in a leap year, 5768 and 5776. We already knew of 5768, so we have only one other time in this list that the 2300 days end on the 1st day of a leap year. I can't see things going on until 2009 for the beginning of the Tribulation, can you? We seem very close now.

The parable of the fig tree in Mt. 24:32-34 says, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., no older than 19, as when they came out of Egypt), and putteth forth leaves (Gaza Strip, Sinai, West Bank and Golan Heights), ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the Rapture, the kingdom of God, Lu. 21:31 is near, even at the doors (symbol of the Rapture in Rev. 3:8; 4:1). Verily I say unto you, This generation (born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Israel grew huge leaves in the Six-Day War of 1967. One generation from 1967 is 2007 (1967 + 40 = 2007). It is 48 years to 9-14-2015.That seems too long. I don't see how the fig tree parable could be fulfilled after Israel passed 19 years old. 1948 + 19 = 1967. Only those 19 and under were the young when they came out of Egypt. They were the ones to go into the Promised Land.

In Mt. 23, Jesus scolded the Pharisees in 30 AD. Then in v. 36, he said, "All these things shall come upon this generation." They did, in 70 AD. That shows that a generation is 40 years, just as it was when they wandered 40 years in the wilderness until one generation died off.

There is a chance that "the last end of the indignation" of Dan. 8:19 means the end of Armageddon instead of the Day of God's Wrath on the Feast of Trumpets.

If we assume that the sanctuary is cleansed at the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (Eze. 45:18; Dan. 8:14) and add 30 days (Dan. 12:11), we come to Iyar 1, 5768 (May 6, 2008). Another 45 days (Dan. 12:12) brings us to Sivan 17 (June 20, 2008).

The 2300 days counted back from the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008) fell on Dec. 19, 2001. Adding another 30 days brings us to Jan. 18, 2002. Adding another 45 days brings us to Mar. 4, 2002. Food for thought. Agape

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I don't see how the Rapture could be several years away. However, I will be ready and watching if it is. Our actions now are so important, and we won't be sorry we persevered to the end.

Jesus kept repeating messages to overcomers. In Rev. 2: 7, he said, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life (that's eternal life), which is in the midst of the paradise of God." In 2:11, he said, "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death" (no Lake of Fire). In 2:17, Jesus said, "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." In 2:26-28, he said, "that which ye have already HOLD FAST TILL I COME. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto THE END, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star (Heaven)."

In 3:11-13, Jesus said, "Behold, I come quickly: HOLD THAT FAST WHICH THOU HAST, THAT NO MAN TAKE THY CROWN. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." In 3:21,22, he said, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."...

Let's suppose that the 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14 terminate at some other time than the Day of Destruction/Day of God's Wrath/end of the shortened Tribulation. Dan. 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (started as the Tribulation begins and ended Mid-Trib), and the transgression (pesha, trespass) of desolation (shamem, astonishment, i.e., when the False Prophet sits in the temple 'shewing himself that he is God,' II Thess. 2:4), to give both the sanctuary (qodesh, sacred place) and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days (lit., morning and evenings); THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY (qodesh, holy place) BE CLEANSED."

Dan. 8:13,14 covers from the beginning of sacrificing (as the Tribulation begins) to the cleansing of the sanctuary. Eze. 45:18 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1, probably the day of the Second Advent as the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year starts), thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY (miqdash, holy place)."

That doesn't seem to mean the Second Advent, because 2300 days prior to Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008) was Dec. 19, 2001. That date passed. So what is the next possibility? Daniel 12 mentions the additional days that amount to an extra 30 days, then another 45 days. Adding another 30 days brings us to Jan. 18, 2002. Adding another 45 days brings us to Mar. 4, 2002.

When is "THE LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION: FOR AT THE TIME APPOINTED THE END SHALL BE (Dan. 8:19). Is it talking about the end of Armageddon? Last end is achariyth, uttermost, length. The time appointed is mowed, fixed time, specifically a festival, a signal (as appointed beforehand), an assembly (as convened for a definite purpose.

Eze 7:2,3,6 says, "An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land. Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways....An end is come, the end is come." The Judgment Seat of Christ is when the 7 trumpet judgments strike Earth. At the 2nd and 3rd trumpets, the 2 asteroid pieces impact Earth." This is why I counted the 2300 days as ending on the Day of God's Wrath, but there could be more than one end?

Dan 7:26 says, "the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion (the False Prophet's), to consume and to destroy it unto the end." This suggests another end, possibly the end of Armageddon.

I ran a search for "the end" and found this. Deu 9:11 says, "it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant." This seems to typify the 40 years, 1967 to 2007, after which the two stone asteroids will fall."

The number 40 means testing and probation. After the temple area was regained by Israel, it looks like their final testing began. Luke 21:24 says, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." These "times" may have been fulfilled when Israel took eastern Jerusalem in the Six-Day War. If not then, they may end when the 70th week of Daniel 9:27 begins. That will be when the covenant will be confirmed.

Dan. 9:26 covers the Crucifixion and the Romans destroying the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD. Then it skips to the end of Armageddon. It says, "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come (the False Prophet, Pontifex Maximus of the harlot church) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (in 70 AD); and THE END thereof shall be with A FLOOD, and UNTO THE END OF THE WAR (ARMAGEDDON) DESOLATIONS ARE DETERMINED." So is the "last end of the indignation" in Dan. 8:19 the end of Armageddon? It rained forty days and forty nights in Noah's day. Does Armageddon last 40 days? More food for thought. Agape

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Rev. 9:7-9 describes these locusts as having "ON THEIR HEADS, as it were crowns of gold, and their faces were the faces of men and their HAIR as the hair of WOMEN."

This seems to be a description of the TURBINS (crowns) that these terrorists wear . Most all of them have long hair.

Also, it interesting that the scriptures state that the man is not to have his head covered. This seems to be a demonic terrorist group that can sting as scorpions. That is, they are not a strong army that invades but have the power to inflict 'stings' on humanity.

The context of Revelation has this in chapter 9 as part of the Trumpet plagues that would put this happening in the Day of the Lord...AFTER the church is Raptured. Perhaps we have seen the first glimpse of what is going to happen during that period.

My reply

Thanks. I hadn't thought of the turbans as crowns. Rev. 9:7 says, "as it were crowns of gold." Therefore, they are not really crowns of gold, but something that looks like that. I just remembered how the Arabs look when they gather at meetings. All over the room, one can see evidence that suggests Islam began as a religion that worshiped Allah, the moon god. They wear "tires like the moon" (Isa. 3:18) upon their heads.

Tires were also worn by Israelites. Isa. 3:18 says, "In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and THEIR ROUND TIRES LIKE THE MOON." Eze. 24:23 says, "YOUR TIRES SHALL BE UPON YOUR HEADS, and your shoes upon your feet: ye shall not mourn nor weep; but ye shall pine away for your iniquities, and mourn one toward another." Agape

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It's always fun when someone takes an interest in, and takes time to discuss a topic-- and so I will continue a little, to talk with you about these things, the 10th planet and etc. I haven't written to you since late '97, I guess it was, so it's about time, huh? I frequently visit your site, since it helps me to be strengthened in our blessed hope, by many topics posted here. There's lots I don't agree on, in many particulars of your views, but I treasure you nonetheless, especially for your fervent hope to be gone from this evil planet. I definitely share this!

My thought is that the flipping upside down of the earth, per the Isaiah text, would require far, far more mass than the double asteroid, which I see as something coming along much later into the apocalypse.

I am not much of a Sitchin fan, although I have read nearly all of his books. There is so much that does not jibe with the Bible, except that all that is said to have gone on among Ea and Enki and all "that crowd," is just the sort of thing that might be possible among the fallen angels. That aside, it must be admitted, I suspect, that there is a terrific weight of evidence from the clay tablets... and he is a very able translator of these, that there is a heavenly body that comes by every so many thousands of years, into the solar system. This I believe would have sufficient mass to effect the flipping of the earth, per Isaiah 24:1.

I'm hopeful that I'm not wrong, just because I want so much to be with God my Saviour, but I may be wrong... nonetheless this is my hope: it seems that the 6th seal is the same as described in the Isaiah text (Isaiah 24:1 and other citations in my post). If this correlation holds true, and if this idea holds any substance at all that this is to occur in the spring of 2003(and this is the big IF!), then my idea is that there necessarily is a lot of gound to cover between now, and then, namely the first 5 seals. It is absolutely inevitable that these things will take place, and it is legitimate for me to fervently hope for our blessed hope, so I guess it's OK to hope these things come quickly, and they must, since His Revelation says they will. If the first 5 seals happen in the coming 16 months or so, then the idea that David Bay has is relevant to understanding this possible timeline. He quotes "The Armageddon Script" I think it is, by Peter Lemesurier (sp?) -- which indicates that the Satanic plan is to stage the antichrist onto the scene, in an imitation of how Jesus fulfilled the OT, riding on a donkey. If this Satanic imitation is to take place on this coming Passover (and the intense pressure of world events seems to tell of how soon the AC must be staged!), then this might "fit" with the fulfillment of the first 5 seals over the year of time between the spring of 2002, and the spring of 2003. If this is so, then our blessed hope surely must be SOON! So I will continue to hope, and to pray, since all creation groans in travail... Best Wishes to you and Ed!

My reply

> > it must be admitted, I suspect, that there is a terrific weight of evidence from the clay tablets... and he is a very able translator of these, that there is a heavenly body that comes by every so many thousands of years, into the solar system. This I believe would have sufficient mass to effect the flipping of the earth, per Isaiah 24:1.

You may trust Sitchin's translations of the clay tablets, but I don't. Why? I don't agree with the way he translated Hebrew words used in Genesis. He seems to be snatching at straws to prove his theory.

When I read J. Sitchin's "Twelfth Planet," I thought he made up the extra planet along with a few other things. Planets orbits the Sun. None of our nine planets have a cometary orbit. Why would another planet have a vastly different type of orbit? Uranus seems to have been hit by a wayward rock. She orbits turned over on her side, but she still orbits the Sun. If Uranus orbits the Sun after being turned over on her side at a 98 degree angle to her plane of orbit, the Earth can do it. However, I expect Earth to rock, then regain her equilibrium and end up nearly the same as before. Why? because the seasons, harvest and Feast of Tabernacles will still be at their preset times. Gen. 8:22 says, "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease." Uranus is different. Each of her poles periodically face the Sun for a 42-year day.

At the time I read the Twelfth Planet, I wrote the friend that loaned it to me saying,"I don't know what Bible version J. Sitchin is using on page 228 of The Twelfth Planet; it is different than any I have. Maybe he translated it himself. He gives no references.

"I do not agree with Sitchin in all that he says, but some of it reflects the truth. A wayward rock did hit a planet and form the Asteroid Belt. His definition of Tehom Raba as "great Tiamat" seems wrong. According to the "Original Bible," tehom is the depths of the seas. I can't see where Sitchin got his "Hammered Bracelet" out of rakiah, the expanse of the heavens. Sitchin's idea that half of Rahab was moved to an empty spot and became Earth soes not seem possible because Earth was here from the beginning, and it was not created a desolate ruin. Also, why should we assume that there was an empty spot here when there were no other empty spots in the original planetary lineup?" [Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Rahab, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Later, Rahab was split apart, forming our Asteroid Belt.]

Dr. Tabor's notes in his translation of Genesis for the Original Bible Project say,
"6 Hebrew tehom, referring to the depths of the seas, or deep underground springs (see Gen 7:11; Psa 106:9; Exo 15.5; Deut 8:7)" [he translated tehom as "deep waters."]
"11 Hebrew rakiah, which mean a space or expansion..." [He translated rakiah as "expanse.]

Sitchin's translations of these two words seem too far-fetched. Strong's says, "8415 thowm teh-home' or thom teh-home'; (usually feminine) from 1949; an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply):--deep (place), depth.
"7549 raqiya` raw-kee'-ah from 7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:--firmament."

> > My thought is that the flipping upside down of the earth, per the Isaiah text, would require far, far more mass than the double asteroid, which I see as something coming along much later into the apocalypse.

According to articles I have read, it only takes an asteroid of 0.6 or 0.7 mi. in diameter to blow the Earth apart. Since the Great Tribulation is shortened or no flesh would be saved (Mt. 24:21,22), I think it is likely that the asteroid could blow the Earth apart if allowed to impact later. It looks like the Lord will use a whirlwind to cause the asteroid to hit Earth early, rather than at the end of the 7 years.

Jer. 23:19,20 says, "who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider (biyn, understand) it perfectly."

The asteroid pieces seem to hit at an oblique angle, which rotates this spinning globe upside down instead of blowing it apart with a direct hit. Think a bit about the impact event itself, the powerful blast of two chunks of the planet Rahab. It isn't just the chunks of rock that do the damage. It is the rocks plus the impact blasts that temporarily turn this globe upside down.

Amos 8:9 says, "it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day." That will be the day of "thick darkness" (Joel 2:1-3).

> > the fulfillment of the first 5 seals over the year of time between the spring of 2002, and the spring of 2003. If this is so, then our blessed hope surely must be SOON!

I think the Rapture will be soon, but the seals seem to be spread out more than 5 per year. The breaking of the 1st seal starts the Tribulation with the Beast riding upon the scene on a white horse (symbol of a prince of peace). The breaking of the 4th is Mid-Trib, when the Satan-possessed False Prophet rides on the scene. He confirms the covenant at the beginning of the Tribulation and then becomes Satan possessed after Satan is cast out of Heaven down to Earth Mid-Trib.

Since the 4th seal is broken Mid-Trib, we can see that the first 6 seals are broken about one per year. The shortening is between the breaking of the 6th seal on the last day of this age and the breaking of the 7th seal the next day, which is the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

I am keeping up on the news concerning the peace agreement, because I expect it to be strengthened at the beginning of the Tribulation. Rev. 4:1 and 6:1,2 show that the Tribulation is "hereafter" the Rapture. Agape

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Re: 7 years tribulation
In response to your reply to the above topic under pro and con 851.

Think about this with regards to what the author wrote on your site...It fits like a glove when you take away the man made 7 year tribulation. There is no 7 year tribulation, and there is NO 7 year tribulation mention in any bible. Daniels 70th week started Rosh 2000, and cannot be shortened according to Gods own words when he says "I changeth not"... That is the first 7 year period...which started on Rosh Hashanah 2000....and ends on Rosh 2007... Then you have the 7 year covenant with the antichrist, which will be shortened by perhaps a year or a little more...There you have 2 "SEPERATE" 7 year time periods...

Here is a piece that Im referring to..

The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Add 7 good years and 7 bad years (as when Joseph was in Egypt) and you get Sept. 13, 2007. The Accords were ratified 3 days later in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754. Adding the 7 good years and 7 bad years brings us to Tishri 1, 5768, which just happens to be Sept. 13, 2007, the time of the Second Coming of Christ to start, and end right on Yom Kippur 2007.

Again, it fits so perfectly that its scary...no 7 year trib,,,,, only a shortened 3 1/2 year GREAT TRIB that is MENTIONED in the bible...

That 2300 days that the poster was referring too was fulfilled long long long ago... this is where people are so very confused...

The antichrist is about to strengthen the peace treaty over in Israel... This bartholomew guy could be the one... The rapture is soo very very close now...I do not think we will make it past april of 2002...maybe not even past this year, which ends in 2 days...

Thats all for now Marilyn... Best regards to you and your hubby.

My reply

Deuteronomy was written to Israel. De. 4:1 says, "hearken, O ISRAEL, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land." V. 13 says, "he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS; and HE WROTE THEM UPON TWO TABLES OF STONE." I think these two stones represent the two asteroid pieces that will impact Earth at the end of the shortened "GREAT TRIBULATION."

Zechariah was written to Israel. In chapter 5:1-4, it says, "I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (rolling thing). And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll (the rotating and orbiting binary asteroid); the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. (It's twice as long as wide.) Then said he unto me, THIS IS THE CURSE THAT GOETH FORTH OVER THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH (AS IT ORBITS): FOR EVERY ONE THAT STEALETH SHALL BE CUT OFF AS ON THIS SIDE ACCORDING TO IT (LIKE ONE STONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS); AND EVERY ONE THAT SWEARETH SHALL BE CUT OFF AS ON THAT SIDE ACCORDING TO IT (LIKE THE 2ND STONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS). I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Beast, the Tribulation Pope): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

De. 4:30 says to Israel, "WHEN THOU ART IN TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, even IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice..." Therefore, Israel will be in the TRIBULATION of the latter days, our days.

Matthew was also written to Israel. Mt. 24:21,22 says, "For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Therefore there is a Great Tribulation that has to do with Israel.

How do we know how long the Tribulation will be for Israel?

In Lev 26:27,28, Israel was told, "if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY UNTO YOU ALSO IN FURY; and I, even I, WILL CHASTISE YOU SEVEN TIMES FOR YOUR SINS." In Daniel 12:7, "time, times, and an half" equal 3.5 years, or 1260 days, just as it does in Rev. 12:6,14. Therefore "SEVEN TIMES' EQUAL SEVEN YEARS. In Dan. 9:27, we find out that the False Prophet "SHALL CONFIRM (GABAR, STRENGTHEN) THE COVENANT WITH MANY FOR ONE WEEK ( SEVEN YEARS); AND IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK HE (THE FALSE PROPHET) SHALL CAUSE THE SACRIFICE AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE (he sits in the temple "shewing himself that he is God," II Thess. 2:4).

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written to the church, which is made up of both Jews and Gentiles. In Rev. 2:22, we find out that some of the church will also go into the "GREAT TRIBULATION." It says, "I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds." After the 2nd Rapture, we see a great multitude in Heaven that "came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

During the first 1260 days, the two witnesses, MOSES and ELIJAH, prophesy. When the False Prophet becomes Satan-possessed and sits in the temple "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4), he kills the two witnesses. After 3.5 days, they are resurrected and ascend to Heaven. They are killed Mid-Trib. No wonder Mal. 4:4-6 reminds Israel to "REMEMBER YE THE LAW OF MOSES my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, WITH THE STATUTES AND JUDGMENTS (including the warning about chastising them 7 times for their sins). Behold, I will send you ELIJAH the prophet before the COMING (1st day) of the great and dreadful day of the LORD (the Millennium): And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." The curse will impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5) on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, cutting the Great Tribulation short.

The Tribulation is the same as the 70th week of Dan. 9:27. It will not only come upon Israel, it will come upon the remnant of the church. Rev. 3:10,11 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from (ek, out of) the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly (at the 1st Rapture): hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (awarded at the Pre-Trib Rapture).

> > Daniels 70th week started Rosh 2000, and cannot be shortened according to Gods own words when he says "I changeth not"

The essence of the Lord is permanent, but he is free to change his mind if he sees fit. Who is to stop him? There is no higher authority that he has to answer to. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19), and Christ said of the Great Tribulation, "those days should be shortened" (Mt. 24:22).

> > That 2300 days that the poster was referring too was fulfilled long long long ago... this is where people are so very confused

Read Dan. 8 carefully. Verses 13 and 14 say, "How long shall be THE VISION concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation (when the False Prophet sits in the temple 'shewing himself that he is God,' II Thess. 2:4), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days (lit., mornings and evenings); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." V. 19 says, "I will make thee know what shall be in THE LAST END of the indignation." V. 17 says, "Understand, O son of man: for AT THE TIME OF THE END SHALL BE THE VISION." Verses 25 and 26 say of the False Prophet, "through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Christ); but he shall be broken without hand. And THE VISION of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

> > Here is a piece that Im referring to..
> > The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Add 7 good years and 7 bad years (as when Joseph was in Egypt) and you get Sept. 13, 2007. The Accords were ratified 3 days later in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754. Adding the 7 good years and 7 bad years brings us to Tishri 1, 5768, which just happens to be Sept. 13, 2007, the time of the Second Coming of Christ to start, and end right on Yom Kippur 2007.

The Day of God's Wrath, which I think will be Sept. 13, 2007, is not the Second Advent. It is the day the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f). The Second Advent is still 7 months in the future (Eze. 39:12,13). The Day of God's Wrath is a day of "thick darkness" (Joel 2:1-3). The day of the Second Advent is not a dark day. Zech. 14:4-7 says, "his (Christ's) feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE LIGHT SHALL NOT BE CLEAR, NOR DARK: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light."

I don't expect Christ until the following Nisan 1, first day of the Jewish Regnal Year (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). Agape

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