Pro and Con 857

Posted 1-14-02

1-10-02 Alert! New destructive virus - JS/Gigger.a@MM
Subject: "Outlook Express Update"
Attachment (the actual virus): Mmsn_offline.htm.
Body: "MSNSoftware Co."
A PERSONAL ACCOUNT OF THE SEIZURE OF THE SHIP - By an Israeli Navy frogman who took part in the raid

The following story came in from Barbara Richmond's, "For Your Glory."

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From: Finland
These short comments about P/C 856

Checked (with My Stars) the rising time of Saturn 17 - 18 th May 2002.
17 th May Saturn rises at about 6.01 to 6.02 am
18 th May Saturn rises before 6.00 am

About Euro coins. There are different 2. faces in every Country ( or rather County) on eurocoins. Don´t know about Italian coins and wonder if Vatican has it´s own.

Wonder if you have studied what David Wilkerson has said (Times Square Church, NY.) Agape

My reply

> > Checked (with My Stars) the rising time of Saturn 17 - 18 th May 2002.
17 th May Saturn rises at about 6.01 to 6.02 am
18 th May Saturn rises before 6.00 am

Thanks so much for checking Saturn's time of rising on Pentecost. The 17th is Sivan 6, the 18th Sivan 7, both are Pentecost. If you happen to check for 1998, 1999 and 2000 too, I'd appreciate your sharing it with me. Have we been building up to this like a crescendo? I can't remember the exact time in 1998, but think it was something like 2:24 AM on Sivan 6, Pentecost.

In Rev. 2 and 3, Jesus promised the overcomers these things: Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to EAT OF THE TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 2:11 He that overcometh shall NOT BE HURT OF THE SECOND DEATH.

Rev 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to EAT OF THE HIDDEN MANNA, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone A NEW NAME written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev 2:26-29 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give POWER OVER THE NATIONS: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I WILL GIVE HIM THE MORNING STAR. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in WHITE RAIMENT; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy CROWN. Him that overcometh will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is NEW JERUSALEM, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME.

Rev. 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I think Christ's throne is on Saturn, the planet with a halo that is a morning star on Pentecost.

It looks like the "firmament" (raqiya, expanse of space) is the section of the heavens between Earth and Saturn. Saturn is "above the firmament," Earth is below the firmament. Gen. 1:6-8 says, "Let there be a firmament (expanse of space) in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters (on and around Earth) from the waters (on and around Heaven). And God made the firmament (expanse of space), and divided the waters which were UNDER THE FIRMAMENT (on and around Earth) from from the waters which were ABOVE THE FIRMAMENT" (on and around Heaven). And God called the firmament Heaven" (shamayim, heavens).

The Literal Version says, "Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be dividing between the waters and the waters....And God called the expanse, Heavens." Birds fly in the firmament. Gen. 1:20 says, "fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven (shamayim, heavens).

Psa 19:1,6 (KJV) says, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and THE FIRMAMENT sheweth his handywork....His going forth is from THE END OF THE HEAVEN, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." The Literal Version of Psa. 19:1,6 says, "The heavens are recounting the glory of God, and THE EXPANSE proclaiming His handiwork....his going forth from THE END OF THE HEAVENS, and HIS ORBIT TO THEIR ENDS; and nothing is hidden from his heat." The "end of the heavens" refers to Saturn, the "third heaven," the outermost of the naked-eye planets. II Cor. 12:2 says, "I know a man in Christ (Paul himself, verses 6 and 7) fourteen years before--whether in the body, I do not know, or out of the body, I do not know, God knows--such a one was CAUGHT UP(harpazo, raptured) TO THE THIRD HEAVEN" (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn). Christ's going forth is from "THE END OF THE HEAVENS" (i.e., from Saturn).

Part of the waters that are above the firmament form Saturn's 7 rings. God's number is 7. It means completion and perfection. The place of Christ's throne is well marked with 7. Zech. 3:9,10 (LXX) says, "I bring forth my servant The Branch (Christ), For as for the stone (planet) which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes" (orbs, rings). Saturn was the 7th planet in the original planetary lineup, (1) Mercury, (2) Venus, (3) Earth, (4) Mars, (5) Rahab, now split apart, forming our Asteroid Belt, (6) Jupiter, and (7) Saturn.

Josephus said that the candlestick represented the planets, the Sun among them. This is also the lineup in our days: (1) Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, and (7) Saturn. No wonder the western light was to always be kept burning. It represented the Sun.

Eze. 1:26-28 says, "above the firmament (raqiya, expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) was the likeness (symbolic language) of a THRONE, as (symbolic language) the appearance of a SAPPHIRE STONE: and upon the likeness of the THRONE was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Christ) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is yellow, banded with amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were (symbolic language) the appearance of fire, and IT HAD BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT (i.e., the 7 bright rings of Saturn are around it). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Ex. 24:10 says, "they saw the God of Israel (the pre-incarnate Christ, Isa. 44:6): and there was under his feet as it were (symbolic language) a paved work of a SAPPHIRE STONE, and as it were (symbolic language) the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness."

Psa. 19:1-6 says, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as (symbolic language) a bridegroom (Christ) coming out of his chamber (chuppah, bridal canopy), and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race."

Saturn will have gone around the Sun and come back into view as a morning star.

I didn't know there were different faces on the Euro for each country. Now I understand why an article said that next year the Pope's face would be on the Euro.

I have read some things Wilkerson has said, but I don't know what you are thinking about. Agape

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RE: Message from yesterday
Did you know there is a prophecy about a captive princess, and she exists today? Have you read the scripture Jeremiah 31:22 a Woman will compass a man.

Do you know of the name Yeshua. I know he's coming, it won't be long now, eminent danger. Are you familiar with the bible code?

I think G-d must be fond of you because he has imparted much information to you.

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

I don't know anything about a captive princess, but I know a lot about Yeshua, the Redeemer, and have read several books on the Bible codes. I do not think we can go by dates. There are too many letters, each having a numerical coefficient.

I have read Jer. 31:22. It says, "How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter (Israel)? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth (erets, land, i.e., land of Israel), A woman (Israel in the Millennium) shall compass (cabab, surround, be on all sides of) a man" (Yeshua, Jesus Christ).

Verses 32 and 33 say, "Not according to the covenant that I (YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, the pre-incarnate Christ, Isa. 44:6) made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them (in the past), saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAITH THE LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE."

Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the FIRST (YHVH the King of Israel), AND I am the LAST(YHVH of hosts, the redeemer); and beside me there is no God."

"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19 KJV). The Hebraic-Roots Version has, "Eloah was in the Messiah who reconciled the world ." The Complete Jewish Bible has, "God in the Messiah was reconciling mankind to himself."

Prov. 30:4 (CJB) says, "Who has gone up to heaven and come down" Who has cupped the wind in the palms of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is his name (YHVH), and what is his son's name? (Yeshua, YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer)" Psa. 2:7,8 says, "ADONAI said to me, 'You are MY SON; today I became your father. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance; the whole wide world will be your possession."

Therefore, in the millennial Day of the Lord, Yeshua will be in the midst of Israel, but the whole wide world will also be his possession. Agape

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From: Jim Bramlett
A friend sent me this excellent quote today:


...PS: A kind reader provided me with the source of the quote in my previous message about the fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity. It is Cal Thomas, respected Christian journalist. Here is what he sent me:
From a Commentary by Cal Thomas:
"People are always asking me if there are good leaders in Washington. There are. There are quite a few, but you don't often hear about them because many of them aren't engaging in scandalous or self-serving activities.

"One such good person is Attorney General John Ashcroft. I had the pleasure of interviewing him again this week for a column I'm writing.

"During the interview, Ashcroft said something so profound, I wanted to share it with you. Listen ... this is good.

"The attorney general of the United States said, 'Islam is a religion in which God requires you to send your son to die for him. Christianity is a faith in which God sends his son to die for you.'

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Re: revised Julian calendar
I had a talk yesterday with a Greek Orthodox friend who explained the difference between Revised Julian and Gregorian calendars. In the mid 1500's Pope Gregory decided that the equinoxes would be on March and Sept 21, and in order to accomplish this, about 15 days were skipped one March. Also, Greek Orthodox only add leap years on centuries evenly divisible by 400. Thus they are 19 days behind the Gregorian calendar. Hope this is useful for calculations!

My reply

Thanks. We now only have leap year on century years divisible by 4, but I can't remember when that started. Agape

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Re: A. Karinae
What do you think the seizing of the ship Karinae A means? The fact that the operation was called "Noah's Ark" - isn't that just too eerie, or what?!!!!!

Well, are you looking at Pentecost again as possible next rapture "window" --- or perhaps sooner???? Thanks!

My reply

It's strange how we get prodded again to think of the constellation Argo, a sailboat. To the ancients, there were two sailboats in Argo. Today, there is one, made up of 3 parts, Puppis, the Poop, Carina, the Keel, and Vela, the Sails. The Poop Deck is the superstructure raised up above the main deck in the stern.

The Rapture is as the days of Noah (Lu. 17:26), so this OPERATION NOAH'S ARK reminds us that our traveling at the Rapture is near. The seizing of this ship by Operation Noah's Ark brought it to the attention of the whole world. The KARINE A was just given this name last year too. It was loaded at the Iranian island of KISH, which was the name of Noah's city near Babylon. It's hard to think that these things are just accidental.

KARINE A SUGGEST CARINAE, the constellation that is the Keel of the ship Argo (meaning the company of travelers). The ship Argo has a representation of Christ's face on it just above the water line and a lion's head above on the prow. Both the ship Argo and Noah's Ark represent Christ. Those travelers on board are in Christ and will be floated up by water, symbol of the Holy Spirit.

Lu. 21:25 says, "And there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (astrois, constellations)." Here are two, the stupendous GAMMA RAY BURSTER in the shepherd's crook of BOOTES (from the Heb., bo, coming) (Jan. 23, 1999) and the new star, NOVA VELORUM, in the sails (Vela) of the ship ARGO (May 22, 1999, Sivan 7, Pentecost). Those sails are reefed (folded together). The ship is coasting into the dock. The new star in the reefed sails called attention to the fact that the ship is no longer under full sail.

> > Well, are you looking at Pentecost again as possible next rapture "window"
--- or perhaps sooner????

There are scriptures that suggest Pentecost for the Rapture. If Song of Solomon 2:10-14 applies to the Rapture, "winter is past, the rain is over and gone." Pentecost is the harvest festival, and we are wheat. Two loaves of fine wheat flour are waved on Pentecost. The Israelites were to go up to Jerusalem on the feasts of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost and Tabernacles (II Chron. 8:13). We might go up to New Jerusalem on Pentecost.

However, there is a chance that the Rapture is not on one of the 7 main feast days. I favor Pentecost, but we are approaching Tu B Shevat (15th of Shevat) on Jan. 28, 2002. The Jews call it the New Year of Trees and plant trees on this day. I don't know how this New Year of Trees got started, but trees can represent men, as in Isa 10:19. It says, "the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them." Isa 61:3 says, "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified." Moses and Elijah are called olive trees in Zech. 4:11-14 and Rev. 11:4. Agape

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Re: Wise Men- Star?
I have been thinking about the 'Wise Men & the Star'

1. Matthew 2:1-2 ..."behold there came wise men from the east saying, Where is He that is born King of Jews? For we have seen His star in the east and have come to worship Him."

2. Questions: *How did the wise men know it was His Star?
* Why would these men from the east want to worship the King of the Jews, anyway??

3. Is it possible in - Luke 2:15 " the angels were gone away from them into Heaven.." - that indeed the shepherds watched the angels go back and then when the angels were gone, there in the sky was a bright star~actually Heaven to where the angels had gone???

4. Then in Luke 2:17 "And when they had seen it (the baby Lord Jesus, Mary and Joseph), they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning the child." ~ Is it possible that the shepherds could have 'made known the sayings concerning the Lord Jesus, as far away a the 'East' from where the wise men came and indeed, told them about the 'Star'.?? Still Looking Up

My reply

I don't have the answers. It seems to me that the star moving about 5 miles south of Jerusalem and stopping over the house in Bethlehem where Jesus was would necessarily be a miraculous star. I can't see any star in the heavens doing this.

An interesting scripture to ponder is Mat 2:1,2,9 in the NAB. It says, "When Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of King Herod, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, "Where is the newborn king of the Jews? WE SAW HIS STAR AT ITS RISING (anatole, dawning) and have come to do him homage....After their audience with the king they set out. And behold, THE STAR THAT THEY HAD SEEN AT ITS RISING preceded them, until it came and stopped over the place where the child was." Whatever this indicates, it caused the wise men to make a trip that took about 4 months. They would have been risking getting robbed. It seems that the star would have had to be something quite out of the ordinary to do that. Agape

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Re: Watchers Watching Evidence
You might be blessed by reading this discussion thread, and also the article at the link. God Bless

My reply

Thanks. The article at the link is eye-opening.
"...By early February, 75,000 U.S. troops will be positioned on the Iraqi front.
"This high concentration of military personnel means that Washington’s concept of the Iraqi campaign is quite different from its approach to the war in Afghanistan, where few U.S. servicemen were deployed outside the Air Force. The Iraqi theater will be broad and multinational, involving at least seven countries -- Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon and Turkey. The ultimate line-up will be determined by political and military developments in the region. But U.S. military planners are counting the armies of three nations – Turkey, Israel and Jordan – as combatant alongside U.S. forces...."
...By Owlhooter36 on Sunday, January 6, 2002 - 01:46 am
> > If there SHOULD be an attack against Israel in the immediate future WHILE WE ARE STILL HERE, that does not mean we were necessarily wrong about the pre-trib rapture.
> > I have read several writings by prophecy teachers who have stated that it is indeed possible that the war of Gog & MaGog may take place PRIOR to the rapture of the church, prior to the tribulation period.
> > It seems a chronological fix cannot be determined as to the timing of the war when Russia and her Arab allies come against Israel. They make the case that it may very well be, in fact, that particular war that brings about the false peace plan.
> > If we can find the scripture to which this refers and figure out which comes first--the peace plan or the battle of Gog & MaGog, then we have a more sure idea of the next order of business coming our way.
> > Could someone please look it up? I'd be ever so grateful....Owl
Maybe I can help a bit. We are living in the "LATTER YEARS" when Israel "shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel" (Eze. 38:8). These "latter years" began in 1948. I did a search for "latter years" in the KJV, and this is the only reference e-sword found. Therefore, this verse defines the "latter years."

Concerning Gog, Eze 38:16 says, "thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be IN THE LATTER DAYS, and I will bring thee against my land (Israel), that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O GOG, before their eyes." Gog will attack Israel in the LATTER DAYS of this age.

The Tribulation is in the latter days. Deu 4:30,31 says, "When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice...he will not forsake thee."

Since Gog will attack Israel in the Tribulation, I don't think he will attack before the peace covenant of Dan. 9:27 is confirmed (strengthened) as the Tribulation begins. Eze. 38:11,12 says of Gog, "thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages, I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates." Jer 23:20 The ANGER OF THE LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the LATTER DAYS ye shall consider (biyn, understand) it perfectly."

What happens when Gog attacks Israel? In Eze. 38:18,19, the Lord says, "IT SHALL COME TO PASS AT THE SAME TIME WHEN GOG SHALL COME AGAINST THE LAND OF ISRAEL, SAITH THE LORD GOD, THAT MY FURY SHALL COME UP IN MY FACE. For in my jealousy and in the FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in THAT DAY there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel." In Eze. 39:8, we read that "IT IS COME, AND IT IS DONE, saith the Lord GOD; this is THE DAY (1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord) whereof I have spoken."

So what happens on THAT DAY, the DAY OF GOD'S WRATH? The 7 trumpet judgments hit Earth. When the 2nd trumpet sounds, "a great mountain burning with fire (a flaming asteroid) was cast into the sea" (Rev. 8:8). This asteroid impacts the Mediterranean Sea. "Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast" (Zeph. 2:4,5).

What does Eze. 38 say happened on the day of the great shaking? Verses 19 and 20 say, "Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the FISHES OF THE SEA, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground." This is the worldwide earthquake.

The 3rd trumpet sounded quickly, "there fell a great star (aster, star, asteroid, flaming meteor) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" (Rev. 8:10). This asteroid wipes out Babylon. Rev. 16:18-21 says of that day, "It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

Gog's army attacks Israel. God's fury comes up in his face, and the asteroids impact Earth to put a stop to it. Zech. 14:1-3 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. THEN SHALL THE LORD GO FORTH, AND FIGHT AGAINST THOSE NATIONS, AS WHEN HE FOUGHT IN THE DAY OF BATTLE.."

This will be Jesus' Long Day. Jesus, from the Greek, is Joshua, from the Hebrew. Joshua's Long Day was a type. Jos 10:11 says, "it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that THE LORD CAST DOWN GREAT STONES FROM HEAVEN upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

Gog's army attacking Israel brings God's fury up in his face. The attack cannot be before the Pre-Trib Rapture. It can't even be before the Pre-Wrath Rapture that takes place just before the asteroids hit Earth. 1Th 5:9 says, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." God's fury will only be poured out on nonbelievers. The saints will be in Heaven receiving their rewards while God's wrath is poured out on Earth. Rev. 11:18 says, "the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

The False Prophet will be revealed after the Pre-Trib Rapture, when he confirms (strengthens) the 7-year covenant of Dan. 9:27. In the middle of the Tribulation, he will "cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (idols) he shall make it (the temple) desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (desolator). Agape

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