Pro and Con 866

Posted 2-6-02

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Re: ArabNews Smear campaign unmasks Zionist designs Sudais
Interesting that in the Youngs Concordance under "destruction" you will find one of the words for "destruction" is the Hebrew word "Makkah" The Arabs call Mecca, "Makkah." (See Arab news here). The word to "ambush, to lie in ambush" in the Concordance is the Hebrew word, "arab!"

Anyway, the Imam of Mecca betrays what all Islam really thinks about the nonMuslim world. Some people are heading for the Haj(j) already. One spelling of the "Haj" is "Hadjdj." If they didn't have us to fight against, they would fight against one another. Still doubt that Satan is Allah? And "He" gets to be worshipped five times a day!
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http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=12502
Arab News, Saudi Arabia
Smear campaign unmasks Zionist designs: Sudais
MAKKAH, 2 February — The imam of the Grand Mosque in Makkah, where several thousand pilgrims have already arrived to take part in this year’s Haj pilgrimage, yesterday lambasted the Western media for launching a smear campaign against Islam and Muslims....

The Makkah imam called upon the international community to differentiate between terrorism and the legitimate right of a people to resistance against oppression....

My Note: Muslims pray facing Mecca, and in the center of Mecca is a box with an asteroid in it. It could be a shard of Satan's planet Rahab that split apart and formed our Asteroid Belt. I wonder how Satan got them to commit that idolatry?

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Re: your recent post on 5D
I think what David is saying is:
1. If a "generation" is 40 years, then the Trib must be shorter than 7 years to end at 2007,

OR (I suspect)
2. A "generation" is longer than 40 years.
These are the only 2 possibilities here. The math just does not work out any other way.

My reply

When I thought the Rapture would be on Pentecost 1998, 2520 days from then ended on Apr. 20, 2008 (Nisan 15, 5768) the Feast of Unleavened Bread. 2008 - 7 = 2001. However, that doesn't take into consideration that the Tribulation will be shortened.

The last 1260 days, the Great Tribulation, is the part that is to be shortened. Since the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 fit from Pentecost in 1998 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007, I figured the shortened Tribulation would last 2300 days. Now, it doesn't seem to fit that way. Can you think of anything else that would show us how long the Great Tribulation lasts?

For there to be 7 months for the Israelites to bury the bodies (Eze. 39:12,13), that year needs to be a Jewish Leap Year. 5768 (2007/2008) is a leap year. The next one is 5771 (2010/2011). With everything that is happening, I can't see the end-times lasting until 5771 (2010/2011), can you?

Let's test this. When will the Day of God's Wrath take place? Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn FEASTS; and one shall TAKE YOU AWAY WITH IT." Hos 9:5,6 agrees that the Day of Destruction is on a feast day. It says, "What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the FEAST of the LORD? For, lo, they are gone because of DESTRUCTION." I think it will be the Feast of Trumpets.

It is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and AS A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY SHALL IT COME." Hos 5:7 says, "They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a MONTH (CHODESH, NEW MOON, i.e., THE FIRST DAY OF THE MONTH) devour them with their portions." The Feast of Trumpets is the only feast that is on the 1st day of the month.

Joel 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of THICK DARKNESS, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; THERE HATH NOT BEEN EVER THE LIKE, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

Dan. 12:1,2 agrees. It says, "at that time (when the False Prophet will be deposed) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered (the Pre-Wrath Rapture), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."

I can't see any other feast fitting. Therefore, I think the millennial Day of the Lord will begin on the Feast of Trumpets.

Do the 7 months of Eze. 39:11-13 have to follow the Day of God's Wrath? It says, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto GOG a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they BURY GOG AND ALL HIS MULTITUDE: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

I think Gog will attack on the Day of Destruction, the Day of God's Wrath. Eze. 38:18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY SHALL COME UP IN MY FACE. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking (the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea) in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake (the worldwide earthquake) at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

Gog's attack will come on the Day of God's Wrath, Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets. Therefore burying Gog's dead will follow the Feast of Trumpets that is the Day of Destruction when "every wall shall fall."

When will Christ return at the Second Advent? Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN unto the earth." The former rain starts Tishri 1 (Jesus' birthday). The latter rain starts Nisan 1, the 1st day of the Jewish Regnal Year.

Eze. 29:17, 21 tells us that Christ will come on Nisan 1. Verse 17 sets the day. It says, "in the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1, Eze. 45:18,21). Then v. 21 says, "In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel (Christ) to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Logos, the Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD." I think Christ will return on Nisan 1 in a Jewish Leap Year, so there are 7 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1.

Can you see the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent fitting any other way?

If a generation is longer than 40 years, what else would fit? Agape

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Re: Is John 1 of the 2 witnesses?
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2002/davidm24.htm
David McLeod (4 Feb)
"John, One of Two Witnesses; Response to Marilyn Agee" ...About John I wrote, Yet John states in Rev. 1:9, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Unfortunately the Authorized translators left out the definite article before the word "tribulation." Why would they do that? It should read. "I John, who am also your brother, and companion in the tribulation...."

You replied, It doesn't mean The Tribulation. It just means persecution. The word translated "tribulation" is thlipsis, PERSECUTION. If I remember right, John was in exile on Patmos because he was persecuted by the emperor Domition. He was well acquainted with persecution. He was the last apostle alive. He knew how they were persecuted and how they died. Let's look at what some other translators thought "thlipsis" meant.

You also shared many different translations of Rev. 1:9 including the Literal, (LITV) "I, even your brother John, and co-sharer in the AFFLICTION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, came to be in the island being called Patmos because of the Word of God, and because of the witness of Jesus Christ."

What you say is absolutely right about the Greek "thlipsis." It does mean persecution as well as affliction and sorrow and anguish and trouble. However out of the 46 times it is used, 21 times it is translated tribulation. Being a noun it is used abstractly in many places meaning a general type of affliction or tribulation.

In Dana and Mantey's "A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament" the authors state, "Abstract nouns are ordinarily general in their character and application, and therefore indefinite. But in the Greek, when it is desired to apply the sense of an abstract noun in some special and distinct way the article accompanies it."

In Rev. 7:14, when John questioned the "elder" about the "multitude which no man could number" he said, "these are they which came out of (literal) the great the tribulation (thlipsis)." They came out of a specific affliction which we know as the Great Tribulation.

In Rev. 1:9 John was speaking of a specific tribulation as well. It could be he was speaking of a particular affliction or sorrow but from the following verses I think he knew full well that he was to be a "witness" of Jesus in the coming time of trouble.

The angel said to John in Rev. 10:11, "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." Tradition says that John died on Patmos, the island he was banished to and where he received and wrote the Revelation. There is no record anywhere that John "prophesied again." But he will!

Marilyn, you went on to say, "Rev. 11:4 says, "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." This refers to Zech. 4:11-14. It says, "What are these two olive-trees, upon the right of the lampstand, and upon the left thereof? And I responded a second time, and said unto him,‹What are the two branches of the olive- trees which join the two golden tubes, which empty out of them the golden oil? And he spake unto me, saying, Knowest thou not what these are? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These, are the two Anointed Ones,‹who stand near the Lord of all the earth." Moses and Elijah stood near Jesus at the Transfiguration."

The Hebrew for "stand" is amad meaning; to stand, in various relations (literal and figurative). Literally thousands of people stood near the Lord while He was on earth. Figuratively it was John, whom Jesus loved, who was closest to Jesus.

In Rev. 10 it is John who is instructed to take the "little book" (scroll) and "eat it." "It shall make your belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey." John is the prophetic fulfillment of Ezekiel who also was given a "scroll" to eat which became in his "mouth as honey for sweetness." It too was to become bitterness for him. Ezk. 2:8 - 3:5. Ezekiel was sent to speak God's words to the House of Israel. So was John. Rev. 10:11

Webster defines "witness" as, 1. an attesting of a fact, statement, etc.; evidence; testimony 2. a person who saw, or can give a firsthand account of, something...

John fits perfectly this definition. What better witness than one who can give a firsthand account of the love and grace of Jesus Christ to the House of Israel and the rest of the world.

Has Jesus yet come in His Kingdom? He said to His disciples, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matt. 16:28

May the Lord's light shine in your life! David McLeod - http://www.rapture.ws

My reply

> > The angel said to John in Rev. 10:11, "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." Tradition says that John died on Patmos, the island he was banished to and where he received and wrote the Revelation. There is no record anywhere that John "prophesied again." But he will!

Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary says, "The apostle John, according to tradition, spent many years in EPHESUS, WHERE HE DIED and was buried." After Patmos, he lived in Ephesus.

Since I want to look at the meaning of some words, I will quote, as you did, Rev. 10:11 (KJV). It says, "Thou must prophesy again (palin, repetition, anew [back in time], once more) before (epi, about, a superimposition of time, about [the times] ) many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

The Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary says, "before, &c.--rather as Greek (epilaois), "concerning many peoples," &c., namely, in their relation to the Church. The eating of the book, as in Ezekiel's case, marks John's inauguration to his prophetical office--here to A FRESH STAGE in it, namely, the revealing of the things which befall the holy city and the Church of God--THE SUBJECT OF THE REST OF THE BOOK.

I too, think that John prophesied again. Rev. 10:11 in the World English Bible says, "YOU MUST PROPHESY AGAIN OVER MANY PEOPLES, nations, languages, and kings."

John is to prophesy again about a certain period of time that has already been covered. Different details of things that happen simultaneously must be told. The segment of time that I want to cover runs from the Pre-Trib Rapture in Rev. 4 and 5 to the Day of God's Wrath in Rev. 6:17. It says, "the great day of his wrath is come." Rev. 11:18 says, "thy wrath is come." So, those are the match marks to show us how these things line up in time.

Prior to Rev. 6, the Pre-Trib Rapture took place. Jesus said, "Come up hither" in a voice like a trumpet (4:1). In 5:9,10, the saints "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" have been made "kings and priests" in Heaven. John's next prophecy in Rev. 11 parallels that time.

Those in the temple seem to be the wise Philadelphian virgins (Rev. 3:7-13; Mt. 25:1f) that have just been raptured. Those in the court "without the temple" seem to be the foolish Laodicean virgins (Rev. 3:14-22; Mt. 25:1f) that were "castaways" (I Cor. 9:27).

Rev. 11:1,2 says, "there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE (symbolizing the Rapture), and MEASURE the temple of God (made up of wise Philadelphian virgins), and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is WITHOUT THE TEMPLE LEAVE OUT, and MEASURE IT NOT (only the Bride can be measured, as the 144,000 "virgins" are, Rev. 14:4,5); for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (1260 days)." This is the first 1260 days of the 70th week of Dan. 9:27.

Next, the Tribulation begins, both in Rev. 6:1,2 and Rev. 11:3. In Rev. 6, Christ opens the first seal on the Title Deed of the Earth. The Beast of Rev. 13:2-10 rides on the scene on a white horse, symbolizing a prince of peace. He has a fabric bow, showing that he is a man of the cloth, a religious leader, probably the Pope. In chapter 11, the two witnesses begin their 1260-days of prophesying as the Beast begins his 1260-day rule (13:5).

The two witnesses have the powers Moses or Elijah had before, power to smite the Earth with plagues (Moses) and power to stop the rain for 1260 days (Elijah). When they "shall have finished their testimony (at the end of the 1260 days), the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (Satan, after being "cast out INTO THE EARTH" Mid-Trib, Rev. 12:9; 13:11; 17:8) shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

The parallel time in Rev. 6 is verse 8. It says, "a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death (the False Prophet), and Hell (Satan) followed with him." The False Prophet becomes Satan-possessed Mid-Trib, after the first 1260 days (of Rev. 13:5) have gone by. This happens when the 4th seal is broken, so the first 1260 days are when the first 4 seals are broken. This leaves 3 seals to be broken in the Great Tribulation, the part that is to be shortened (Mt. 24:21,22). The shortening comes between the breaking of the 6th seal on the last day of this age and the breaking of the 7th seal the next day, which is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

Of that day, Rev. 6:15-17 says, "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Christ is crowned, the Marriage of the Lamb takes place, and the Judgment Seat of Christ convenes on that first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Here he is seen sitting on his throne.

In the parallel passage in Rev. 11:15f, we get an expanded picture of events on this day. It says, "the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall REIGN for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders (of which John is one, II John 1:1; III John 1:1), which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast REIGNED. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." While the saints are getting their rewards in Heaven, the unbelievers on Earth are getting their just desserts for not accepting Christ.

John has already prophesied again. It is written down for us in the Bible.

> > About John I wrote, Yet John states in Rev. 1:9, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Unfortunately the Authorized translators left out the definite article before the word "tribulation." Why would they do that? It should read. "I John, who am also your brother, and companion in the tribulation...."

John is cast as both actor and narrator in Jesus' miracle play. Just as our movies start out with a Preview, The Revelation of Jesus Christ (he's revealed to us at the Rapture) starts off with a Preview of the Rapture. In Rev. 1:9, the NAB says, "I WAS CAUGHT UP IN SPIRIT on the Lord's day and heard behind me a voice as loud as a trumpet." Darby translated it as "I BECAME IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet." That is exactly what will happen to us at the Rapture. We will become in the spirit and be caught up to Heaven.

Once in Heaven, John turned around and saw Christ with all 7 churches around him. He had the star performers still in his hand for the had just plucked them up.

Since John is playing the part of the Pre-Trib Rapture in chapter 1, he isn't playing the part of one left behind to go through the Tribulation. When the actual Rapture takes place in Rev. 4:1, John is caught up. He isn't one of the Laodiceans that are left behind. He sees and describes the scene in Heaven right after the Rapture. He is one of the elders that are crowned and sitting on their thrones.

> > > These, are the two Anointed Ones,‹who stand near the Lord of all the earth." Moses and Elijah stood near Jesus at the Transfiguration."
> > The Hebrew for "stand" is amad meaning; to stand, in various relations (literal and figurative). Literally thousands of people stood near the Lord while He was on earth. Figuratively it was John, whom Jesus loved, who was closest to Jesus.

Mt. 17:1-3 says, "after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and JOHN his brother, and BRINGETH THEM UP into an high mountain apart (as being caught up to Heaven at the Rapture), And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto THEM (Peter, James, and John) Moses and Elias talking with him." John is not also Moses or Elijah. He is a separate person looking at Moses and Elijah.

This symbolizes the Rapture, when Christ's hair is "white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes...as a flame of fire" (Rev. 1:14). At the Rapture, Jesus is getting ready to send Moses and Elijah to Earth to witness during the Tribulation that begins after the Pre-Trib Rapture, so he is probably giving them their instructions.

> > Webster defines "witness" as, 1. an attesting of a fact, statement, etc.; evidence; testimony 2. a person who saw, or can give a firsthand account of, something...

John fits perfectly this definition. What better witness than one who can give a firsthand account of the love and grace of Jesus Christ to the House of Israel and the rest of the world.

Moses can give a firsthand account. He met God at Sinai and has been in Heaven. Elijah can give a firsthand account. He experienced the Rapture and has been in Heaven.

If you think one witness is John, who do you think the other witness is? We know for sure that Elijah will come before the millennial Day of the Lord begins. Mal. 4:5 says, "I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD."

In Jude 9, it says, "Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses." It doesn't say he disputed about the body of John.

> > Has Jesus yet come in His Kingdom? He said to His disciples, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matt. 16:28

Peter, James and John were not dead when they saw the Transfiguration. John saw more before he died. He wrote, "I saw heaven opened, And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean" (Rev. 19:11-14). Didn't John see the Son of man coming in his kingdom? Agape

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Re: Hey
** Low Priority
** Shalom.
As I wrote you earlier, I'm leaving Christianity and converting to Judaism. My conversion classes begin in one week. Again, I have you to thank for me leaving Christianity.

I'll ask the question again...Have you stopped to look at key Old Testament passages as they appear in the Hebrew to see if your assumptions are built upon accurate translation? Or are you still hoping the Christian translations of the Old Testament are good enough? You can't base your eschatology on hoping the translation you have is good enough.

Let me point you again to the most accurate English translation of the Hebrew Bible. It is Artscroll's Stone Edition and I actually saw a copy for sale at Border's book store in the mall. This means you don't have to go to a Jewish book store to get a copy. It is mainstream now and available to anyone who wants it.

This translation is universally agreed upon by those who are fluent in Biblical Hebrew to be the very best. There is no question among true scholars (not the self proclaimed scholars like Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, John Hagee etc...) that the Stone Edition is the real thing.

I might add a word of caution. When you start to look up your pet passages in an accurate translation, you are going to be confronted with a problem...you are going to have to look the truth straight in the eye and either you will gravitate towards it or hide your eyes from what it says. Most people I've met don't have the chutzpah to abandon false conceptions for the truth. They are just too attached with what they have believed all these years.

Good luck in searching the truth. Don't hang around too long in the darkness, your soul will suffer.

***As a matter of practice...every time someone comes to me to "teach" me the Bible, I ask him this question first..."Are you fluent in Hebrew?" Of course I ask it IN Hebrew! If they aren't, I show them the door. There's no point in talking to them because they aren't the real McCoy. It's sort of like a taking piano lessons from a teacher who can't read music!***

My reply

> > As I wrote you earlier, I'm leaving Christianity and converting to Judaism.
> > I'll ask the question again...Have you stopped to look at key Old Testament passages as they appear in the Hebrew to see if you assumptions are built upon accurate translation

I will answer your question. Hope you will answer mine. I look up key Hebrew words in Strong's Concordance, Green's Interlinear Hebrew Greek English Bible and the Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon of the Old Testament. How do these rate for accuracy?

> > Let me point you again to the most accurate English translation of the Hebrew Bible. It is Artscroll's Stone Edition

You are judging me because I do not have the Artscroll's Stone Edition? I have lots of Bibles to compare their translations. I have the Complete Jewish Bible, the Exegesis Bible, the LXX and the Hebraic-Roots Version "New Testament." On top of that, I have over 15 other translations on my shelves. On my computer, I have more versions in e-sword and Online Bible.

I'm so sorry that you are rejecting the only Saviour this world has ever had, the only person that has died, been resurrected and ascended to Heaven in full view of others as proof of who he is. Your reason that only one person on this planet knows how to translate the Old Testament correctly might fail you in the end. You are staking your salvation on the words of one person. What if he makes a mistake? He is human isn't he? Are human's perfect? Will you give that as a reason that you rejected God's Son when you stand before him at the judgment? What about people that have never heard of Artscroll's Stone Edition? Are they lost forever because of that?

You have no one to blame if you fail to grasp salvation when it is offered to you as a free gift from God. All you have to do is accept it. You have a brain that can discern the truth. You can't rely totally on anyone else. People are imperfect. You were put on this Earth to make this descision for yourself. You have a good translation of Scripture. Great. What does it say?

Look up Proverbs 30:4 in Artscroll's Stone Edition and see if you can answer these questions. The translation should be similar enough to these to be able to discern the question.

The Complete Jewish Bible says, "Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has cupped the wind in the palms of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name? Surely you know!"

The Exegesis Bible says,
"Who ascended to the heavens? Or descended?
Who gathered the wind in his fists?
Who narrowed the waters in a cloth?
Who raised all the finalities of the earth?
What is his name?
What is the name of his son--if you know?

What is his name? ---------------------
What is his son's name? --------------------

Tell me, if you know. And what does Artscroll's Stone Edition say?

Psalms 2:7 (CJB) says, "I will proclaim the decree: ADONAI (Heb. YHVH) said to me, 'You are my son: today I became your father."

The Exegesis Bible says, "I scribe the statute! Yah Veh says to me, You are my Son/Ben; this day I birthed you."

What is the father's name?-----------------
What is his son's name? ------------------

Psalms 2:12 (CJB) says, "Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and you perish along the way, when suddenly his anger blazes. How blessed are all who take refuge in him."

The Exegisis Bible says, "kiss the Son/Bar, lest he be angry and you destruct from the way--when his wrath burns but a little. Blithe--all who seek refuge in him."

Are you taking refuge in his son? -------------------

Isa. 53:1-6 (CJB) says, "Who believes our report? To whom is the arm of ADONAI (YHVH) revealed? For before him he grew up like a young plant, like a root out of dry ground. He was not well-formed or especially handsome; we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us. People despised and avoided him, a man of pains, well acquainted with illness. Like someone from whom people turn their faces, he was despised; we did not value him. In fact, it was our diseases he bore, our pains from which he suffered; yet we regarded him as punished, stricken and afflicted by God. But he was wounded because of our crimes, crushed because of our sins; the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him, and by his bruises we are healed. We all, like sheep, went astray; we turned, each one, to his own way; yet ADONAI (YHVH) laid on him the guilt of all of us."

Who is the arm of YHVH?-----------------------
How are we healed by his bruises?---------------
Have you laid on him your guilt?-----------------

Isa 64:6 (KJV) says, "we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." No one can save themselves. No one is good enough. One sin dooms us to Hell. Either your guilt is on your shoulders or it is on Yeshua's. God made the rules. We are powerless to change them. By his rules we stand or fall.

I would appreciate it very much if you would quote Artscroll's Stone Edition's translation of these verses for me, so you can show me what these key verses really mean. Understanding them correctly can be a life or death situation. I wouldn't want to misunderstand them. Shalom and agape

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