Pro and Con 868

Posted 2-13-02

Incoming email

Re: The Real Lord of the Rings
I thought you'd be interested in this story from Science@NASA

What made Saturn's rings? Did they exist when dinosaurs roamed the Earth? And what are the waves that ripple through them? Four hundred years after they were discovered, Saturn's mysterious and magnificent rings vex astronomers with these questions and many others....

My reply

Thanks. It is interesting. I sure wish I knew why all the bands are not alike. God must have planned it to be distinctive.

"Voyager 2 spacecraft images of "spokes" and other irregular features in Saturn's rings." Agape
Hamas parades missiles, vows more attacks on Israel
Nizar Rayyan...Hamas leader whose son, Ibrahaim, died carrying out a suicide mission against a Jewish settlement in Gaza last year...(said) "Killing for the sake of God wipes out the sins. Go and wipe out your sins as martyrs".

My note, Re: martyrs

Islam says, "Killing for the sake of God wipes out the sins. Go and wipe out your sins as martyrs".

Exo 20:13 says, "Thou shalt not kill."
Mat 5:21 say, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment."

Rev. 6:9-11 says, "when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them."

Incoming email

Here is a surprisingly good link of online bibles.

Copper scroll from Qumron caves

Frank R Molver (9 Feb)
"Copper scroll treasures from temple after war? photo"

"...behold a white horse...", by:


"In the front of the UN building in New York is the statue to Peace. It consists of a white horse. Its rider wears a crown and carries a bow but no arrows. This is the symbol that the Apostle John saw in Revelation 6:2 describing the victories of the Antichrist. As you go into the UN building, past the scanners and turn right, you come to the Meditation Room. There on the wall is a mural depicting the amalgamation of the world's religions. Winding its way throughout the mural is the Serpent, the symbol for Lucifer or Satan.
Astronomy picture of the day 2-9-02
...Skygazers will have a chance to watch the Moon actually pass in front of the ringed planet in February, March, and April this year. In fact, an excellent lunar occultation of Saturn will be visible from parts of North America on February 20th as Saturn disappears behind the dark limb of a first quarter Moon....

Incoming email

Re: link to a picture of Saturn's hexagonial pattern
I have been looking seemingly forever, but finaly found a link to a site that has a picture of the hexagonial pattern on Saturn's north pole and I thought you might be interested in looking at it here is the link to the main side, On the bottom of that page you'll find another link to the picture. See what you make of it, I know that quite a number of pro & cons ago you refered to it. God bless you and your family for all your hard work in His Name. agape from your brother in Christ...

My reply

Thanks. I went through the archives at Astronomy Picture of the Day and found bright auroras of the Earth, Jupiter and Saturn. Those (of Jupiter and Saturn) looked more like circles. If the hexagon shape is only on Saturn, that would make it seem like a sign.

The first 3 images are Saturn. The one shown in blue is Jupiter. Earth's didn't copy, but it looked like nothing more than a glow at both poles. Agape

Note: The first picture of Saturn is the same one that was on P & C 866 (so I omitted it here). Since the outer ring color is so different from the middle and inner ring colors, it looks like something God did to reveal his hand in the matter. The heavens display his handiwork.

Incoming e-mail

Re: Return of the Savior
I'm surprised that as a scriptural scholar you would even bother with trying to figure out when Yeshua would return, when He reveals in the scriptures in Matthew 26 that it is slated for 2030AD. The problem for prognosticators is that although He revealed this fact to His followers just before His capture and subsequent staking, we also know He said in the Mount of Olives prophecy that the time for his return would be shortened. And, although we are told why the time is shortened, we aren't told by how much.

My reply

How does Mt. 26 suggest 2030? Agape

Incoming email

Re: Return of the Savior
Thank you for your question.

In the biblical versions of the scriptures of Yahweh, the Christ's statement at the beginning of Matt 26 has been obscured. To the casual reader He is speaking of the Passover and of His staking. However, in the unadulterated scriptures He speaks of Paradise and His staking. He says that Paradise is two days away BUT first the Son of Man must die. Paradise has not appeared yet, so we understand that He was talking about a still future event. Two days could not refer to His resurrection by the Father because He distinctly said He would be three days AND three nights in the tomb. And, since He spoke these words just before His capture in 30AD ( by a corrected reckoning of His birth year) adding the two prophetic days to the year 30 A.D. brings up the year 2030 A.D.

In Matt. 24 Yeshua says that the time of the day of the Lord will be shortened or else no one would be left alive. Since He tells us not how much the time will be shortened we can't know the day or the hour of His return (just like He said we would not).

However, that being said, I believe we can discern that Yeshua is close to returning by watching for the signs He has told us about during His earthly ministry and His revelation to His apostle John.

Thank you again for your question. Best wishes to you and yours.

My reply

Here is Mt. 26:2-5 in the Hebraic-Roots Version. ""you know that after two days is the Pesach (pascha, Passover), and the Son of Man will be betrayed, and bound, that he may be crucified." Then were assembled the cohenim, and elders of the people, to the court of the Chief Cohen, who was called Kayafa, and consulted that they might secure Yeshua by subtlety, and kill him. But they said, "Let us not do this on THE FEAST DAY, lest there be a great commotion among the people."

"Pascha" means Passover. To me, "the feast day" has to be the Passover. The subject at hand has nothing to do with Paradise. After 2000 years, the Son of Man will not be crucified. He was crucified after 2 literal days.

> > In Matt. 24 Yeshua says that the time of the day of the Lord will be shortened or else no one would be left alive.

You probably mean the Great Tribulation will be shortened. The Day of the Lord is the Millennium. I don't see anything that says it will be shortened. What Jesus was talking about in Mt. 24:21,22 is the "great tribulation."

World events point to the Tribulation arriving soon, so I am looking up. Our days on Earth seem short. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Check out The REVELATION 7 Thunders and the RAPTURE
a prophecy by Norb Hackman

I have read this but IM not sure I agree or understand. I wanted to know what your thoughts are on this concerning the seven thunders. To me it doesn't line up with the word of God. God says if we repent and pray to be counted worthy to escape and stand before the Son of Man we will escape the trials coming on the whole world. Gods word says that what ever we ask in prayer in Jesus name he will give it, we shall receive it. So do you agree with this vision or word from the Lord?

My reply

No! I don't agree with this, and I do not accept it as "word from the Lord." To me it doesn't line up with the word of God, either. Pay no attention to it. I copied some segments that I will comment on.

> > The only way that they can come with me in the air is when they listen to the 7 thunders, when they are here waiting and watching for my return as my word says to eagerly wait for my return....

The Rapture is in Rev. 4:1. All the things in The Revelation of Jesus Christ that follow the Rapture are "things which must be HEREAFTER." The 7 thunders are not mentioned until Rev. 10. They have nothing to do with the Pre-Trib Rapture. They are more likely to have to do with the 7th trumpet mystery of God being finished. Rev. 10:7 says, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

What happens as the 7th trumpet sounds? Rev. 11:15 says, "the seventh angel sounded; and there were great VOICES IN HEAVEN, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

> > Listen to me, listen to your spirit, forget about your mind. Your mind, until it is restored, is not acceptable to my thoughts. My thoughts come through your spirit. My teaching comes through your spirit. The only way you understand my word is through your spirit. You cannot understand my word through your mind. You cannot understand my word through studying and reading books that someone wrote about my word - what it means - because that is not what it means. My word means what it says. It is truth when it is listened to in my spirit, in your spirit, when your spirit understands my spirit, when I hear you speak, when I hear you read or think my words. Your spirit must listen to my spirit and when my spirit tells you the meaning you must understand, you must listen, love, you must obey

That is scary. God doesn't ask us to park our brains and listen to a seducing spirit that wants us to "think" his words, that says, "when my spirit tells you the meaning you must understand". This is not God speaking. It is not Biblical. It sounds like the very thing that the enemy would spout. When a spirit says, "my spirit tells you the meaning" and "Your spirit must listen to my spirit," it wants control over a person. It wants to lead a person astray. Have none of it. Stick with the scriptures.

2Ti 2:15 says, "STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

God wants us to mine the scriptures for his hidden treasures. Prov. 2:2-5 says, "incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God." Agape

Incoming email

Do you mean that we wont be changed until all the trib saints are in heaven with us or we are all changed in our own turn. I think I misunderstood.

The catching up of the Tribulation saints at the last trump is seen in I Cor. 15:51-53. It says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We (believers)shall not all sleep (die in Christ), but we shall all (both the Bride, called up to Heaven at the first 'trump of God' [I Thess. 4:16,17], and the Tribulation saints, called up to the heavenly assembly at the last trump), be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (all saints) shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

My reply

Don't feel bad. This isn't easy to understand, and maybe I didn't get it quite right, either. I can only try to communicate what I think I understand. I'd like to know more about it too.

We are given promises, but sketchy details. We have to trust the Lord to bring these things to pass. He promised us immortality, which we do have now because of his power and integrity. He won't let us die. However, this passage sounds like we will finally be made immortal in actuality. The promise will become reality.

It sounds like this change at the last trump will make sure that the whole Body of Christ is literally incorrupt and immortal, both those that were resurrected and those that were raptured without dying and being resurrected.

Some members of the Body of Christ become incorrupt at the resurrection. When the dead in Christ are resurrected, they are "raised in incorruption" (I Cor. 15:42). However, at the Raptures, some living ones are caught up too. At some point in time, they too must "put on incorruption," and then all must put on "immortality." Agape

Incoming email

From: Rich Pope, Re: Hey, ** Low Priority **
As I mailed you in one of my email, I indicated that I didn't have my Chumash with me at work. And that I would address certain things OUT OF ORDER of how they were asked.

I get the feeling you aren't reading my emails.

Secondly, in my rebuttled to Psalms, I DID show you how Artscroll translates it! I clearly showed it doesn't even say 'kiss the son' and gave you the grammatical reasons for this.

But again, I don't believe you read my emails which is typical of someone who is afraid to confront the truth. They jump to conclusions and miss the information. Please, go back and re-read my emails to you and you will see..

I am still working on the other questions you sent me. Rich

My reply

Take what time you need. I have read all of these e-mails, but have not yet answered some of them.

I have a new web site to UL all my web files to, so be patient with me. So far, I have posted everything that is on on the new site. I am now busy putting my current e-mail address on Read-Only Pro and Cons 1-299 that had the discontinued address. The only way I have figured out to do that is to correct them one at a time, then Save As with a different title. After trashing the original, I then change the new title back to the original so the links will all work. It takes time.

You are still beating around the bush. :-) Here is Prov. 30:4 in Green's Interlinear: "Who has gone up into Heaven, and has come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in (His) garment? Who has made rise all the ends of the earth? What (is) His name, and what (is) His Son's name? Surely you know!"

That's been in Scripture a long time. Surely someone has come up with the answers. Questions in Scripture are often to make us stop and think.

"Selah" means pause and think of that. It points out important things. The Old Testament's Psa. 32:5 agrees with the New Testament's 1 John 1:9. Psa 32:5 says, "I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah." I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

In the Old Testament, Psa 50:6 says, "the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah." In the New Testament, John 5:22 adds, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."

Psa 24:10 uses both a question and Selah, so it deserves our close attention. It says, "Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah."

In John 1:49, "Nathanael answered and saith unto him (Yeshua/Jesus), Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel." In Isa. 44:6, YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, is also the King of Israel. Psa. 24:10 shows that YHVH of hosts is also the King of glory. Agape

His reply

From: Rich Pope, Re: I've provided, ** Low Priority ** Okay...I've given you two analysis from the Hebrew on the passages you sent me. There will be more to follow when I have time. Suffice to say it wasn't difficult for me to show you how badly Christian Bibles translate the Hebrew.

The question is, "Why haven't Hebrew scholars spoken up about this earlier?" The answer is simple...Christian missionaries were not that big of a problem in the past. But now that Christians are really pushing to convert Jews, the Jewish community has to break silence and speak the truth to prevent their fellow, uneducated Jews from believing these missionaries.

One clever tactic is Dr. David Sterns, The Complete Jewish Bible. His Greek NT is just a reworking...he inserts Hebraic names of people, places and concepts to make it sound familiar to the uneducated Jew. But the OT isn't a translation at all. He copied an old JPS version that came out of copyright. The JPS isn't nearly as good as Artscroll's Stone Edition.

Another clever translation is the Semetic New Testament. This is an attempt at a more scholarly translation but of course can't help us with our Old Testament study.

So, Marilyn...are you going to read what I sent you in a prayerful manner or are you just going to toss it aside? I understand it can be hard to come to terms with reality when for so thought you had the truth. But seekers of truth don't care about validating their personal beliefs, but rather just finding the pure truth how ever it falls. Rich

My reply

> > now that Christians are really pushing to convert Jews, the Jewish community has to break silence and speak the truth to prevent their fellow, uneducated Jews from believing these missionaries.

And you're going to cast your lot in with unbelieving Jews? Are you willing to take their punishment? The YHVH of hosts (Isa. 44:6), the Redeemer's, words will stand. In Mt. 23:13,15, he said, "woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in....Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the CHILD OF HELL than yourselves."

I hope you will talk to some Messianic Jews. Their numbers are growing. They have smart heads on their shoulders. They know the truth, and the truth will set you free. I hope you will find the truth. Joh 8:32 says, "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Otherwise, you will be on a slick slide to Hell, "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mar 9:48). Agape

His reply

From: Rich Pope, Re: You asked..., ** Low Priority **
Shalom. Yes, those lexicons you have are useful resources. But looking up a word in a lexicon is hardly going to help if you have no fundamental knowledge of a language.

Let me offer an example...

Let's say someone, who doesn't speak English wants to see what the word "glow" means. So, they look it up in a dictionary. They are going to find 6 possible definitions and applications, depending on context. So which definition should they use? If they can't speak the language, they have no way of using context clues to determine the correct choice.

The same goes with someone who doesn't speak Hebrew. They can look up the word using Strong's number, but then what? Which definition should they use? What context clues are they relying upon to make such a decision? Can you see the difficulty here? Being able to use a Hebrew/Greek dictionary won't help in translating a grammatically difficult passage. Rich

My reply

Most passages are not grammatically difficult. All of the things important for our salvation are easy to understand. Prophecy is different. Isa 28:13 says,"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Agape

His reply

From: Rich Pope
Subject: Here it is again..., ** Low Priority **
Here is a portion of what I wrote you earlier...I will provide you with the full passage tonight via my other computer. I suspect the reason you directed me to Psalms was to show somehow that the "son" in this passage refers to Yeshu. If you read my previous email you'll clearly see this cannot be the case.

The Jewish rendering of Psalms 2:12 states: "Do homage in purity [nash-ku bar], lest He be angry, and you perish in the way. . . ." Rich

My reply

** High Priority **
I read your e-mail, but I do not agree with you. I wish I could help you, but the final decision is up to you. God planned it this way. To make this decision is why we were both put on this Earth. Nothing is so important. It's your call. It makes the difference whether you go to Heaven or Hell.

Here is Psalm 2 in Green's Interlinear. Psalm 2 is precious to me. Both God the Father and the Messiah Son of God speak here.

"Why do the nations swarm, and the peoples meditate on vanity (riyq, a worthless thing)? The kings of the earth set themselves; yea, the rulers have plotted together against JEHOVAH AND HIS ANOINTED (MASHIYACH, MESSIAH), (saying), We will break THEIR bands in two, and throw off THEIR cords from us. He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; Jehovah shall mock at them. Then He will speak to them in His anger, and He will trouble them in His wrath; Yea, I have set My king on My holy mount, on Zion.

"I (THE MESSIAH) will declare for a statute, Jehovah said to ME, YOU (ARE) MY SON (BEN); I have brought You forth today! Ask of Me, and I will give the nations (as) Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth (as) Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Now, then, be wise, O kings; be taught, O judges of the earth: Serve Jehovah with fear; yea, rejoice with trembling. Kiss the SON (BAR, HEIR APPARENT), lest HE be angry, and YOU perish (from) the way, when HIS wrath is kindled but a little. O the blessings of all who are trusting in HIM!"

I claim these blessings, for I am wholeheartedly trusting in Him. He is Jehovah's anointed Messiah. Who do you think "HE" is?

I do homage in purity. He is my LORD, the LORD of hosts, Immanuel, the LORD of my life, my Yeshua, my Jesus Christ. I trust in HIM implicitly. If you want to "Do homage in purity," do it. "lest HE be angry, and YOU perish (from) the way."

I pray that you will pray and tell the LORD that you accept Yeshua as your own personal Saviour, that you are trusting in Him. In Jesus' name, Amen. Agape

Incoming email

Re: planet x
what do you think about planet X [Blindsided Planet X - Mark Hazelwood] which will first appear to the naked eye as a little red cross?

My reply

I don't believe there is a planet X. In Eze. 28:13, the planets in our solar system are symbolized by precious stones. Originally, there were 10, including Rahab, Satan's planet that was split apart forming our Asteroid Belt.

Eze 28:13,14 says, "Thou (Satan, king of the rock; Tyre means rock) hast been in Eden the garden of God (both earthly and heavenly ones); every precious stone was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius (1, Mercury), topaz (2, Venus), and the diamond (3, Earth, given to man), the beryl (4, Mars), the onyx (5, Rahab, given to Satan), and the jasper (6, Jupiter), the SAPPHIRE (7, Saturn, given to Christ for his throne), the emerald (8, Uranus), and the carbuncle (9, Neptune), and gold (10, Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (guards); and I have set thee so (Gen. 3:24): thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (the sapphire, i.e., Saturn); thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." Rahab is in the middle of the lineup.

We can verify that the sapphire symbolizes the place of Christ's throne. Exo 24:10 says, "they saw the God of Israel (YHVH of hosts, Christ the Redeemer; Isa. 44:6): and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE stone, and as it were (symbolic language) THE BODY OF HEAVEN (HEAVENLY BODY) in his clearness."

Eze. 1:26-28 says, "above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in the planetary lineup than the terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE STONE: and upon the likeness (symbolic language) of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Christ) above upon it. I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is yellow striped with amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (the equator) even downward, And I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (the rings of Saturn). This was the appearance of the likeness (symbolic language) of the glory of the LORD."

If there was another planet out beyond Pluto, I think it would have been included in the lineup. Remember that God knew and put this was in Scripture before we even knew about Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Agape

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