Those two remind me of the following scriptures: 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Marilyn: In PC870 your feet were beautiful and "preach you did" through the power of the Holy Spirit and by rightly dividing the Scriptures. Through God's long suffering does He still stretch out His hand towards those who refuse to come to an understanding of His Word and remain prone to stumble at the truth.
Well said, Marilyn. Agape
I can't think of a passage in Revelation that says that all the past trends are coming back. History does seem to repeat itself though. We understand that when we read the Old Testament prophecies. Some had a near fulfillment that helps us understand the greater fulfillment that is coming at the end of this age.
Job 8:8 says, "enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers."
1Cor 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ENSAMPLES (examples): and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., ages) are come."
The Revelation of Jesus Christ will be when we see him at the Rapture. He will be revealed to us then. The Rapture is "at hand" in the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10).
After a Preview of the Rapture in chapter one, there are messages in chapter 2 to the 7 church groups. In the message to Thyatira, we can see that there will be 2 groups, overcomers that are caught up to Heaven in the Rapture and some that will end up in the Great Tribulation. Rev. 2:21,22 says, "I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (join) with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." We seem to be in that "space to repent" right now.
When the Lord comes to catch up his Bride and take her to Heaven, there will be two groups of believers on Earth. They are represented by the Philadelphians, who have the "open door" (3:8) of Heaven set before them, and the Laodiceans, who are cast outside the door, as in Mt. 22:13.
To be sure we are in the Philadelphian group, we should take to heart what Jesus said to the Laodiceans. In Rev. 3:19, he said, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." We should repent of all sins committed since we accepted Christ as our own personal Saviour. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." When we are cleansed of unrighteousness, we are counted as wise virgins (Mt. 25:1f). We will go with Christ the Bridegroom when he comes for his Bride.
The Rapture takes place in Rev. 4:1. After that, we are given a view of events in Heaven right after the Rapture. We will be part of that group "out of (Gr., ek) every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" in Rev. 5:9.
In Rev. 3:10,11, we find that Greek word "ek," meaning "out of." Jesus said, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from (ek, out of) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial, i.e., the Tribulation), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." This applies to the Philadelphian church group. Jesus had no words of condemnation for them. They are among the group in Heaven right after the Rapture.
The events of the 7-year trial we call the Tribulation starts in Rev. 6, after the Rapture has put the wise Philadelphian virgins in Heaven out of harm's way.
While waiting for the Lord to come take his Bride to Heaven, believers are to "take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21:34-36). Agape
I'm Baptist, but being an independant thinker, I don't always agree point by point with them. We agree on the main things and disagree on minor things. Below are some things we differ on.
> > Christ's coming is always imminent and is not predicated by signs.
I think Christ's coming is planned for a certain time he decided on before the world began. As for signs, Luke 21:25,28 says, "THERE SHALL BE SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring ...And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."
Rom 8:23 says, "not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." For Paul, that redemption will come at the Pre-Trib Rapture.
> > To try to figure out what the mark of the beast will be by observing current events is unadulterated speculation and is a waste of time. I want to warn our readers not to be caught up in this type of thing.
Rev. 13:18 says, "Here is wisdom. LET HIM THAT HATH UNDERSTANDING COUNT the number of the beast."
> > Matthew 24:33: "So likewise ye, WHEN YE SHALL SEE ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near, even at the doors." The Lord Jesus said those who see ALL of the events of Matthew 24 fulfilled will know the time of His return. He is referring, obviously, to those who are alive during the Great Tribulation. What are ALL THESE THINGS that Christ had prophesied in Matthew 24? Verse 15 refers to "the abomination of desolation" that shall "stand in the holy place." Verse 21 refers to "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Verse 24 refers to powerful miracles performed by false christs. Verse 29 speaks of the sun and moon darkened, and the stars falling from heaven. We are seeing none of these things today.
> > MATTHEW 24 DOES NOT SPEAK OF CHURCH-AGE EVENTS > > The Lord Jesus said those who see ALL of the events of Matthew 24 fulfilled will know the time of His return.
I don't see it that way. Here is what Jesus actually said. Mat 24:32-34: "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
All these things refer to things within the parable of the fig tree, not in the preceding verses. There is a break in subject matter when Jesus starts telling the parable. Before it, Jesus answered the question asked by Peter, James, John and Andrew (Mk. 13:3). Mt. 24:3 says, "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (lit., age)?" The Sign of the Son of Man in v. 30 is the SIGN of his coming and the end of the age. It takes place on the last day of this age, as the millennial Day of the Lord is coming on.
I think this SIGN is seen 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13). Mt. 24:15 is at Mid-Trib, when the Great Tribulation begins. Mt. 24:30 is the SIGN on the last day of this age. Verse 31 is when all saints are gathered to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Heb. 12:23). Mt. 24:31 is the calling of the saints in Heaven to the assembly. They are those that were raptured before the Tribulation began. Mark 13:27 shows that the 2nd Rapture is at the same time that the saints in Heaven are called to the assembly. It says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those previously caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture).
Then, Jesus expands on one thing understood from the previous verse, how those elect in Heaven got there. From Mt. 24:32-51, the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture is the main thing in view. That is the time when the foolish virgins are cut off. Verses 50 and 51 say, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders; Luke 12:46 has"unbelievers"): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
The parable of the fig tree tells us how to know that the Rapture is near. When we see Israel growing when she is no more than 19 years old (tender is apalos, young), we know that the Rapture" is near, even at the doors" (plural, indicating the 2 Raptures). Israel grew 4 huge leaves in the Six-Day War, Sinai, West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights, when she was 19 years old. Summer was nigh. The war began June 5. Summer began June 21. Mt. 24 talks of church age events from verse 32 to 51.
> > I believe this exposes the error of concentrating on speculative prophecy. Sure, it's interesting to witness current events and to SPECULATE about when the Lord MIGHT come. It's interesting to SPECULATE about whether or not the current European Community is the revived Roman Empire, but I don't believe the Lord wants His people to be focusing on these things. He wants us to be focusing on the Great Commission. The writings of the Apostles do not contain prophetic SPECULATION. Does SPECULATION really have a place in Bible preaching and ministry? Are we to be SPECULATORS? No, I believe we are to preach the SURE Word of God and leave the speculation to the prognosticators of this world.
Luke 21:36 says, "WATCH YE THEREFORE, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture). I'm going to watch and pray. If we were not supposed to watch, the Lord wouldn't have told us over and over to watch. I intend to keep on watching.
> > During this present interlude in Bible prophecy ("the church age" as it is called), Christ is calling out a people for his name from among the heathen nations. At the end of this period, believers will be caught away to Heaven, and the prophetic clock will start again and the final week of Daniel 9, a week of seven years, will be fulfilled. This is also called the Great Tribulation, and is spoken of in Scriptures such as Matthew 24; Luke 21; and Revelation 6-18.
Here we agree, except I think the Great Tribulation is the last half of the 7-year period.
> > THE CHRISTIAN'S DUTY IS NOT TO LOOK FOR PROPHETIC SIGNS
To me, that is not watching. It is like putting on blinders so we can't our signs.
> > The Christian can know the general seasons, but we cannot know the time of Christ's return. I don't believe we can know the year. I don't believe we can even know the decade. In fact, we cannot be sure even about the century! THE HOLY SPIRIT IS RESTRAINING THE DEVIL'S PROGRAM IN THE WORLD, AND THIS IS THE MISSING ELEMENT OF PROPHECY THAT MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR US TO KNOW WHEN CHRIST WILL COME.
I think the Rapture will be soon. I have already seen signs in the Sun, Moon and Constellations that this writer was not looking for. I'm watching the developments that will end in confirming the covenant (Dan. 9:27). It seems near.
> > They wanted to know about prophetic details and dates. The Lord's reply is instructive: "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea,, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:7-8).
> > The Lord told them they were not going to know the details of prophetic events and dates beyond that which is written in Scripture
That's about the way it worked out, but at the time, the New Testament didn't exist. After this, they would know what is now written in the New Testament. John would know much more about the times and seasons when he penned the Revelation of Jesus Christ. They were to "receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon" them. He came 10 days later, on Pentecost and gave them the power to know more about the times and seasons. He helped them understand what he wanted written down.
> > I don't believe it is wrong to study prophecy. Prophecy forms a large part of Scripture and it is important for the Christian life. Prophecy is a great motivator. At the same time, I don't believe we should go beyond written prophecy and begin to speculate publicly about whether certain current events are the fulfillment of prophecy.
> > Second, I do not believe we can determine the time of the Rapture by observing world events. I believe the Rapture will be a surprise and will not be preceded by specific signs. Finally, anything that detracts from the Great Commission is dangerous, even if it is the study of current events in light of Bible prophecy. Many who attend prophecy conferences have no zeal to win souls to Christ and no burden for world missions. They are caught up in enthusiasm for speculation, but are largely uninterested in the far more important business of world evangelism. This is wrong.
I see no reason why we can't combine watching with evangelism. Jesus said, "what I say unto you I say unto all, WATCH" (Mark 13:37). We do not want to be scolded for not discerning the signs of the times. In Mat 16:3, Jesus told the Pharisees, "in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but CAN YE NOT DISCERN THE SIGNS OF THE TIMES?"
We should do better than the Pharisees. We don't want him to say to us, "CAN YE NOT DISCERN THE SIGNS OF THE TIMES?" Agape
This is hogwash. First of all you aren't making the distinction between the tribes of Judah and the tribes of Israel. It is Judah that are the Jews, not Israel. So just your incomplete knowledge of this fact makes your statement completely wrong and thus irrelevant.
Again, you don't know the Tenach like you pretend to so your theology is wrong. Rich
Isa. 40:10 (KJV) is interesting. It says, "Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and HIS ARM shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him."
I have Dr. Tabor's translation of Isa. 52 and 53. I thought you might like to see some of it. The emphasis and interpretations are mine.
Isa. 52:10,14: "YHVH has bared THE ARM OF HIS HOLINESS in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the DELIVERANCE (YSHUWAH, salvation; i.e., YESHUA, Saviour) OF OUR ELOHIM (plural, the Godhead)... Just as many were astonished at you, so HIS (THE ARM OF YHVH'S) appearance was disfigured beyond that of a man ('ish), and HIS FORM BEYOND THAT OF THE SONS OF MAN ('adam). Thus HE (THE ARM OF YHVH) will startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths over HIM; because that which was not told them, they will see, and that which they had not heard, they shall understand."
Isa. 53: "Who has believed OUR (ELOHIM'S) report? And upon whom is THE ARM OF YHVH revealed? So HE (THE ARM OF YHVH, the Son) GREW UP BEFORE HIM (YHVH) like a tender shoot (SON), and as a root from dry ground; HE (THE SON) had no beauty and no splendor, so we would look at HIM, and no appearance so we would desire HIM. HE was despised and rejected of men; A MAN of pains, and knowing infirmities; and WE DESPISED HIM as one hides the face from HIM, and we did not consider HIM. Surely HE took up our infirmities, and our pains, HE carried them; and we considered HIM beaten--struck of ELOHIM and afflicted. And HE WAS PIERCED FOR OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, CRUSHED FOR OUR INIQUITIES; a chastisement for our wholeness was upon HIM, AND WITH HIS WOUNDS THERE WAS HEALING FOR US. All we like [the] sheep have wandered off; we have turned, each one of us, to his own way; and YHVH HAS CAUSED THE INIQUITY OF US ALL TO FALL ON HIM. HE was oppressed, and HE was afflicted, and HE did not open HIS mouth: like the lamb HE was led to the slaughter, and like a sheep before the ones shearing her is silent, so HE did not open his mouth. By restraint and by justice HE was taken, and who considered HIS generation, for HE WAS CUT OFF from the land of living ones, for the transgression of HIS PEOPLE (THE JEWS) a stroke was upon them. And they appointed HIS grave with the wicked ones, and with the rich in HIS death, though HE had done no violence, and no deceit was in HIS mouth. And YHVH DELIGHTED TO CRUSH HIM--HE caused suffering--though you make HIS life a guilt offering, HE will see offspring, HE will prolong his days, and the pleasure (will) of YHVH will prosper in HIS hand. From the anguish of HIS soul HE will see light, HE will be satisfied, in HIS knowledge THE RIGHTEOUS ONE will justify my servant to the many, and HE will carry their iniquities. Therefore I (YHVH) will allot a portion for HIM among the many, and with numerous ones HE will divide spoil; because HE poured out HIS soul to death, and HE was numbered with ones transgressing; and HE BORE THE SIN OF MANY, and HE entreated for the ones transgressing." Agape
Most passages are not grammatically difficult? Why then are there SEVERAL places in the JPS Torah that footnote "Hebrew is difficult"? And the famous "Eyeh Asher Eyeh"? You simply don't know what you are talking about.
Write me when you get educated instead of spouting off nonsense. Rich
Boy! I sure like that "by his bruises (Or: and in fellowship with him) we are healed." You see, sin erects a barrier between us and our Holy God. When sins are in the way, we do not have fellowship with God. We are out of fellowship and may be in desperate need of a Saviour. And how can we know we are in fellowship with God? One of his attributes is perfect love. Those in fellowship have a love relationship with God and men, because they have God's perfect love in them and flowing through them to other people. They are like Moses and Elijah in Zech. 4:11-14. They "empty the golden oil (symbol of the Holy Spirit)out of themselves."
Under the First Covenant, David asked that God not take His Spirit away from him. In those days, the Holy Spirit came upon certain ones at God's choosing. Under the New Covenant, the Holy Spirit indwells every person that accepts Yeshua as his own personal Saviour. Agape love is therefore in all those that are in fellowship with our Holy God. They don't jab at people as if fighting with swords. They discuss things in a reasonable manner in the love of God, knowing that since God is in them, He knows everything they do, say, or think. Their actions should honor God and show that they are walking humbly with him. Agape
It isn't a matter of agreeing with me Marilyn, it's a matter of knowing Hebrew, which you obviously don't. And neither do Christian translators. So, be like the prodigal son who wallows with the pigs. It's your salvation, not mine that is in danger.
BUT don't take my word for it. Call up a Hebrew scholar. Ask them to translate the passage from the Hebrew. In fact, call LOTS of Hebrew scholars...they are all going to tell you the same thing. But I suspect you won't believe them either. Rich
Wormwood was given to Satan, the king of the rock (Tyre means rock). It is the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev. 8:10,11 says, "the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star (aster, star, asteroid, flaming meteor) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called WORMWOOD."
Rev. 9:1-3 says, "the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to HIM (Satan) was given the KEY OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT. And he opened the bottomless pit (molten center of the Earth); and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts (demons) upon the earth."
Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth AN HABITATION FOR HIMSELF IN A ROCK? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely violently TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."
Eze 28:2 addresses the Satan-possessed False Prophet. "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus (rock), Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God."
Eze 28:13-18 says, "Thou (king of Tyre, the rock, i.e., Satan) hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius (1 Mercury), topaz (2 Venus), and the diamond (3 Earth), the beryl (4 Mars), the onyx (5 Rahab), and the jasper (6 Jupiter), the sapphire (7 Saturn), the emerald (8 Uranus), and the carbuncle (9 Neptune), and gold (10 Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (guards, Gen. 3:24); and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (on Rahab). Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I WILL CAST THEE TO THE GROUND, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. THOU HAST DEFILED THY SANCTUARIES (Rahab, Wormwood, Babylon) by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I BRING FORTH A FIRE FROM THE MIDST OF THEE, it shall devour thee, and I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH in the sight of all them that behold thee."
Deu 32:31 THEIR ROCK IS NOT AS OUR ROCK, even our enemies themselves being judges."
Deu 32:4 "He is the ROCK, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a GOD of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."
There is a large rock under the Dome of the Rock. One might think they would pray toward that rock, but that rock would not tell us the story that the meteorite tells. The meteorite came from the heavens, not the Earth. I wonder how in the world the enemy got them to bow down to a meteorite that symbolizes him as king of the rock. He sure is tricky. Agape
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