P & C 898

Pro and Con 898

Posted 5-1-02

Incoming email

Re: 7 year covenant? Ultra high priority!!! :)
in Jesus Christ,
Today, i read finnish newspaper called Helsingin Sanomat today, and i found something pretty unbelievable! First, i got to tell you that Helsingin Sanomat is reliable newspaper and it is very respected.

But now, this is what i found (i'll try my best to translate it) in article named:

"What's next, Ariel Sharon? - PM is worried how to get rid of Yasser Arafat and still get negotiations started"

Article talks about peace deals (Oslo, Mitchell arab's etc..) that have been and haven't really worked. It also talks about Sharon's critics who have always reminded him that military action won't do anything good and solution should be initiated only through politics. But now very recently, Sharon has hinted about conference which would include Usa and Middle East countries, which would be beginning for new peace process.

And now comes the unbelievable part:

"..His (Sharon's) vision (of peace process) includes three stages, first ceasefire, AND AFTER THAT TEMPORARY AGREEMENT THAT LASTS 7 YEARS OR MORE, and during that part, final peace would be negotiated."

When i read that, i was pretty stunned!

But there's small problem (atleast now): why i haven't read anywhere else about this? Do you know anything about this? I read this only about 10 hours ago so i guess it's pretty new, but I've checked watch.org, debka.com, jpost.com and haaretzdaily.com about million times and haven't found this mentioned. Please reply ASAP

My reply

I may have read that before. It sounds familiar.

Here is some information about the Oslo Accords, etc.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00r70
The Declaration of Principles, signed by the PLO and Israel, contains a set of mutually agreed-upon general principles regarding the 5-year interim period of Palestinian self-rule. As such, the DOP defers permanent status issues to the permanent status negotiations, which will begin no later than the 3rd year of the interim period. The permanent status agreement reached in these negotiations will take effect after the 5-year interim period....

The Permanent Status: Negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians on the permanent status will commence as soon as possible but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period (May 1996). These talks will determine the nature of the final settlement between the two sides. It is understood that these negotiations will cover remaining issues including Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest. Under the DOP, the permanent status will take effect 5 years after the implementation of the Gaza-Jericho agreement, namely May 1999.

They didn't make it then, and haven't now. The Holy Spirit in the salt of the Earth is restraining until we are gone. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Pentecost;Ascension
just wondering if, maybe, Pentecost would be a better day for the coming of the two witnesses and Ascension day better for the rapture? --or maybe I just want the Lord to come back sooner.I can hardly wait!

My reply

Since there is both resurrection and ascension at the Rapture, Resurrection Day and Ascension Day could tie in. On Resurrection Day, Jesus, a few others who came out of their graves, and all the rest of the OT saints in Paradise ascended to Heaven. Jesus returned later on that same day and ascended again 40 days later.

Why 40 days? Forty means testing and probation. Jesus was tested in the wilderness 40 days before he began his earthly ministry. Maybe the apostles were tested 40 days before they began their earthly ministry. During that 40 days, Jesus gave "commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father...ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence" (Acts. 1:3-5).

The ministry of the early church started with a 10-day wait for the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. It seems that the ministry of the church of our days will end with a 10-day wait (Rev. 2:10).

In the 1st century, the 10-days of waiting preceded the return of the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9) on Pentecost. Jesus said, "wait for the promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4). In our days, it would be reasonable to think that we too would have a 10-day wait until the return of Christ on Pentecost. Just as Christ was not seen bodily on Earth on the 1st century Pentecost, he will not be seen bodily on Earth at the Rapture. We will rise to meet him in the air.

On that 1st century Pentecost, "THEY WENT UP INTO AN UPPER ROOM" (Acts 1:13). Won't we also go up into an upper room, Heaven? John 14:2,3 says, "I go to prepare A PLACE (an upper room) for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN (i.e., at the Rapture), AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Pentecost was one of the 3 feasts that required them to GO UP TO JERUSALEM. At the Rapture, we will GO UP TO NEW JERUSALEM (Rev. 3:12). To me, Pentecost still seems to fit the Rapture better than Ascension Day.

When Jesus comes for the Bride of Christ, it would be a fitting time to bring Moses and Elijah to Earth for their 3.5-year ministry during the first half of the 70th week of Daniel. Agape

Incoming email

Re: GRAPES INFO IN ISRAEL
Wow. Thank you for the explanation. I didn't realize that the counting of the Omer - the 50 days - started at the Feast of First Fruits. I had always thought that it started with Passover.

I have another question. When Jesus stated that "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass...." in Matthew 24:34, He was at the end of His earthly ministry, and yet, I believe that for Jesus, in His mind, His generation started when He turned 30 years old. The reason I am thinking about this, is because men weren't really considered "men" until their 30th birthday. In fact, that tradition still exists and then some, in some rabbinic circles. So, Jesus reaches the age of 30, and His "generation" would have been another 40 years, bringing His age to 70. Which reminds me of Psalms 90:10, "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; .... for it (that which restraineth?) is soon cut off, and we fly away (as though presently tethered to the ground/earth by a cord. Once "it" is taken away, we go up and away.)." This can't be refering to the age of a man, because God establishes in Genesis that a man's years shall be 120 years. So this whole Psalms 90 looks like a Rapture Psalm. Also, Psalm 90:10 gives a little "wiggle" room, in that it allows the generation count to go up to 80, "..if by strength.." Jesus Christ's 3.5 extra years after age 30 were certainly had by "...labour and sorrow..." If the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., then the period of time in the generation-gap was a bit more than 40 years - more like 43 or 44 years, depending on how you count it. This 43/44 year generation added to 1967 when Jews/Israel regained sovereignty over the Temple Mount and all of Jerusalem, comes out to 2010 or 2011. This leaves more than enough time for the rapture to occur as well as the final 7 year tribulation. As a side note, and it is only that, the Mayan Calendar states that the world as we know it ends in 2012 due to violence from the Sun or an asteroid. Interesting.

Speaking of the dung parable, do you think it is possible that the current Intifada against Jews/Israel right now could have anything to do with the 3 years the Master came looking for fruit and didn't find any? I am just curious, as the Intifada has now been going on, by inclusive counting, for 3 years.

Another thought. Maybe the line-up of the 5 planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, could be a "sign" regarding the counting of the Omer this year. I.e., 50 days, 5 planets. G-d bless you and Ed.

My reply

> > When Jesus stated that "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass...." in Matthew 24:34, He was at the end of His earthly ministry, and yet, I believe that for Jesus, in His mind, His generation started when He turned 30 years old. The reason I am thinking about this, is because men weren't really considered "men" until their 30th birthday.

When the Israelites came out of Egypt, those under 20 were not counted. They were the young. Those males 20 and up were counted (Ex. 30:14). They were adults, fit to go to war.

It was the priests that served in the tabernacle from 30 years old until 50. Num 4:3 says, "From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation."

> > Psalms 90:10, "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; .... for it (that which restraineth?) is soon cut off, and we fly away (as though presently tethered to the ground/earth by a cord. Once "it" is taken away, we go up and away.)." This can't be refering to the age of a man, because God establishes in Genesis that a man's years shall be 120 years.

That 120 years was how long it would be till the destruction of all but 8 people in the flood of Noah's day. If Noah lived to be 950 (Gen. 10:29), a 120-year lifespan wouldn't make sense.

> > Jesus Christ's 3.5 extra years after age 30 were certainly had by "...labour and sorrow..." If the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., then the period of time in the generation-gap was a bit more than 40 years - more like 43 or 44 years

The Crucifixion was in 30 AD, 40 years before Jerusalem and the temple were burned in 70 AD. In Mt. 23:36, Jesus told the Pharisees in 30 AD, "Verily (Amen, i.e., this is important) I say unto you, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL COME UPON THIS GENERATION. They did, in 70 AD. "THIS GENERATION" lasted 40 years. It was as Ezek. 4:6 told us. Ezekiel was to "bear the iniquity of the house of Judah FORTY DAYS: I have appointed thee each day for a year."

> > Speaking of the dung parable, do you think it is possible that the current Intifada against Jews/Israel right now could have anything to do with the 3 years the Master came looking for fruit and didn't find any?

Yes! I think the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9 is being fulfilled in our days. 1998 was the 480th year in the Modern Parallels. If the 4 years of the parable are added to 1998, we come to 2002. That would make the year in which Israel is to be dug about and dunged this year. It sure fits what the intifada has done to Israel. It is strange, but dung is used as fertilizer, and fertilizer of another sort, ammonium nitrate, is used in some explosives that have dug about Israel in the intifada. The parallel was very good.

> > Another thought. Maybe the line-up of the 5 planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, could be a "sign" regarding the counting of the Omer this year. I.e., 50 days, 5 planets.

Luk 21:25-32 says, "there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (lit., constellations); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity...And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption (the Rapture) draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (nations); When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation (1967 - 2007) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

We have had signs in the Sun, Moon and constellations already. Now, we have more. This lineup of planets will not take place again in our ordinary lifetime, either. On March 29, the day Israel started to break up Arafat's terrorist structure, there were 8 heavenly bodies in a row, Neptune, Uranus, Mercury, Sun, Venus, Mars, Saturn and Jupiter. These and sometimes the Moon jostle around near each other for at least a couple of months.

Ascension Day, 26 Iyar, May 8, will show the world something I've never seen before. Venus, Mars, and Saturn are visually stacked on top of each other with Mercury kissing the stack--all in Taurus. Flanking them are the Sun in Aries and Jupiter in Gemini.

> > Maybe the line-up of the 5 planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, could be a "sign" regarding the counting of the Omer this year. I.e., 50 days, 5 planets.

Could be. On May 18, Sivan 7, Pentecost, we will have 5 planets lined up between the Sun in Taurus and the Moon in Cancer. The 5 planets will appear in this order: Mercury, Saturn, Mars, Venus and Jupiter. Counting the Sun and adding Earth, these are the heavenly lamps that Josephus said the candlestick represented. The order of the lamps in the candlestick were (1) Sun (western light, always to be kept burning), (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter and (7) Saturn (eastern light). That is an astonishing lineup. Hope it heralds a Pentecost Rapture. Maranatha. God bless you and yours, agape

PS: In my previous e-mail (above), I said, "Ascension Day, 26 Iyar, May 8, will show the world something I've never seen before. Venus, Mars, and Saturn are visually stacked on top of each other with Mercury kissing the stack--all in Taurus. Flanking them are the Sun in Aries and Jupiter in Gemini."

That's not true. I'd like to get and give a clearer picture than that. When I wrote that after midnight last night, I was copying the views day by day from Your Sky. Evidently, their symbols for the planets are so large that it even obscures the triangle on May 5. Here is a good picture of the sky on May 5. It shows the May 5 triangle clearly.
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/grandtour/may5.html

Below, let's see about Ascension Day, Iyar 26, our May 8, 2002. Here is the Grand Tour's picture for May 6-9:

There's still a triangle, though not an equilateral one.
Below, let's go to May 16 and 17:

Below is May 18, 2002. Both the 17th and 18th are Pentecost.

The 17th is most interesting because of the addition of the 4-day-old Moon. That is Sivan 6, so the Jewish Calendar is off a bit at that point. Agape

Incoming email

could the triangle over bethlehem on May 5 be the 10 day warning for a Pentecost rapture?

My reply

There will be a triangle of some sort from the 5th through at least the 9th. Pentecost can be May 17, 18 (Sivan 6 [by inclusive reckoning]; Sivan 7) or Sunday, the 19th, according to how the Omer is counted. Ascension Day would be 10 days earlier. Agape

PS: The May 5, 2000, alignment below was the first of Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn in 6,000 years. That gives the April/May, 2002, alignments more weight.

Incoming email

Re: Sincere Request For Information About The Latter Rain
I would be most appreciated if you would kindly send information about the biblical basis of the latter rain. I am a methodist and spend a great deal of time as an organist in the Seventh Day Adventist Church where the subject was mentioned in passing.

My Mother passed recently, and I am seeking the spiritual cleaning power as mentioned by Ellen G. White (Seventh Day Adventist proponent).
God Bless Your Attention to this inquiry!

My reply

Here are some scriptures mentioning the first or former rain and the latter rain. In De. 11:14, the Lord said, "I will give you the rain of your land (the promised land, Israel) in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain and the latter rain." Christ came as the former rain at the First Advent. He will return as the latter rain.

These rains are so definite that they are listed on Jewish calendars that show the feasts and harvest times of grain and fruit. Unger's Bible Dictionary shows the Former Rain starting Tishri 1 (1st day of the civil calendar) and the Latter Rain starting Nisan 1 (1st day of the regnal and sacred calendars).
Deu 28:12: "The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in HIS SEASON."

Jer 5:24: "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth RAIN, both the FORMER and the LATTER, in HIS SEASON: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest" (Pentecost).

Hos 6:3 "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know THE LORD: HIS GOING FORTH IS PREPARED AS THE MORNING; AND HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN UNTO THE EARTH."

Joe 2:23: "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the FORMER RAIN moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the FORMER RAIN , and the LATTER RAIN in the first month." Both Tishri 1 and Nisan 1 are first months. The former rain starts with the first day of the civil year. The latter rain starts with the first day of the regnal and sacred years.

Pro 16:15 In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the LATTER RAIN ."

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no LATTER RAIN ; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed."

> > I am seeking the spiritual cleaning power as mentioned by Ellen G. White (Seventh Day Adventist proponent).

Please don't absorb Ellen G. White's teachings. Her theology was pretty mixed up. Go by Scripture.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the one who can cleanse us from all unrighteousness. First, all our past sins are wiped off the slate when we accept Christ as our own personal saviour. When we sin after that, we need to confess our sins to God to be cleansed from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Agape

Incoming email

Re: 7 trumpets blown on Pentecost?
just wondering if Pentecost is one of those feasts on which 7 trumpets is blown? If so, on what day and time is the last blown? I think you see where I'm going here. Sincerely

My reply

If I remember right, it was Greg Killian that said the First Trump is to be blown on Pentecost, the Last Trump on the Feast of Trumpets and the Great Trump on the Day of Atonement.

This fits the Pre-Trib Rapture at the First Trump, the Pre-Wrath Rapture at the Last Trump and the Day of Atonement for the Jewish Remnant on the Great Trump.

Here is Nu. 10:1-4 (LXX): "the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, Make to thyself two silver trumpets: thou shalt make them of beaten work; and they shall be to thee for the purpose of calling the assembly, and of removing the camps. And thou shalt sound with them (i.e., both, at the last trump), and all (as in I Cor. 15:51,52) the congregation shall be gathered to the door of the tabernacle of witness. And if they shall sound with one (i.e., first trump), all the rulers (we are 'kings and priests,' Rev. 1:6) even the princes of Israel (24 elders; the 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles) shall come to thee. Agape

Incoming email

Re: question on Rev. chronology
I've been reading your pro's and con's for several months, but I guess I've never understood where you place the judgment seat of Christ in the Rev. line-up. In your pro and con #894 you quoted from Matt 25 and stated "The wise are caught up to heaven and the foolish are left on earth during the tribulation, the trial that precedes the judgment seat of Christ."

I've always accepted that Rev. unfolds in the manner in which it is told. Chapter one introduces the matter at hand (judgment awaiting Christians); chapter 2 - 4 forms a commentary on chapter one, and chapter five leads into the section covering the tribulation...

I would like to share with you a word study that I have had help with by a friend I fully trust spiritually and achedemically to be straight forward and honest in studing God's Word.

The word translated "hereafter" in 1:19 and the words translated "after this" and "hereafter" in 4:1 are from the same two words in the Greek text (meta tauta). In all three instances the translation should be "after these things." The thought, as shown at the beginning of chapter four, is after the things revealed in chapters two and three. In one respect, this would be a reference to events following the present dispensation (one way in which chs, 2, 3 are to be viewed); but, more specifically the reference would be to events following findings and determinations emanating out of activity at the judgment seat (the primary thrust of chs. 2,3), a separating out of the overcome from the overcomers or the foolish from the wise or the set aside from the one's drawn near- the Bride of Christ.

The seven Churches in the presence of Christ in Revelation, chapter one depict the Church as a whole coming under judgment at the conclusion of the present dispensation; and the fact that this judgment will occur in heaven and has to do with issues surrounding the judgment seat of Christ becomes evident as one studies the opening chapter of the book.

"Seven" in Scripture is God's number. It is a number showing completion. It is used more specifically to show the completion of that which is in view, and in this case, the Church is in view, with "seven Churches" showing the complete Church (all Christians, faithful and unfaithful alike.)

The seven Churches named in the opening chapters of the Book of Revelation, though referring to seven existing Churches in the Gentile world (in Asia - 1:4) during the first century, depict completion in relation to the Church. These seven Churches represent Christianity as a whole-both on earth during the present dispensation (chs. 2,3) and in heaven at the conclusion of the dispensation (chs. 1-4, as a whole).

The word "after this" and "hereafter" in Rev. 4 would show that after this (judgment of the Churches), than this (the opening of the seals and the tribulation begins). With these specific words being used, I would have trouble seeing the judgment of the church waiting for a later time, say somewhere during the tribulation. What is your take on this. I am genuinely seeking Gods leading in this. With time being so short, I don't want to appear before the Lord ignorant in an area that He held out for me. Thank you for your time.

My reply

...go directly to: http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee/baber.html http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee/bride.html

> > > "The wise are caught up to heaven and the foolish are left on earth during the tribulation, the trial that precedes the judgment seat of Christ."

Yes, the Tribulation is the trial before rewards are handed out at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Both the Pre-Trib-Rapture saints and the Pre-Wrath-Rapture saints are there. Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my PATIENCE, I also will keep thee from (ek, out of, as translated in 5:9; Strong's: from [among, forth, up], over) the hour (hora, day, hour, instant, season) of temptation (peirasmos, putting to proof, TRIAL), which shall come UPON ALL THE WORLD, to TRY (peirazo, try, test, examine, prove) them that dwell upon the earth."

Rev. 11:17,18 tells us part of what happens on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the end of the shortened Tribulation, the Day of God's Wrath. It says, "We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord), and wast (at the First Advent), and art to come (the Second Advent is still 7 months later, Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned (first item on the agenda of the day, Jesus Christ received his golden crown and his kingdom; after that came the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Marriage of the Lamb, then the Judgment Seat of Christ convenes). And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets (including OT prophets), and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." While the saints (believers) are receiving their rewards in Heaven, the unbelievers on Earth are receiving their just rewards, the 7 trumpet judgments, for their unbelief.

Jesus, author and director, gave John the script of his dramatic miracle play. It's setting is when the Rapture is "at hand." It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signs off at the end with "Surely I come quickly." He comes quickly at the Rapture. Rev. 3:11 says, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

The title of this dramatic production is "THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST" (1:1). He is revealed to us at the Rapture. The Revelation is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signs off with "Surely I come quickly."

Like our movie directors, Jesus gave us a Preview in chapter 1. It is a Preview of the Rapture. That is when Jesus will be revealed to us "clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs...white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes...as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his VOICE as the sound of many waters" (1:13-15).

His voice also sounds like a trumpet. When John was caught up to Heaven in the Preview, he became in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard "a great voice, as of a trumpet" (1:10). When the Rapture happens in 4:1, it is "the first voice" he heard, "as it were of a trumpet talking with me, which said, Come up hither." Rev. 11:12 shows us exactly what happens when "a great voice from heaven" says, "Come up hither." The two witnesses "ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

The Rapture will also be seen. Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited PATIENTLY for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me UP also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay (as Jeremiah was taken up out of the pit of miry clay with a cord [i.e., Christ's righteousness] and rotten rags [our righteousnesses]), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my goings (i.e., the Rapture). And he hath put a NEW SONG (as sung by the saints in Heaven in Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT (the Rapture), AND FEAR, AND SHALL TRUST IN THE LORD."

> > I've always accepted that Rev. unfolds in the manner inwhich it is told.

Revelation seems to be built with circle clocks. See "God's Circle Clocks" at
http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee/clocks.html
I drew 2 sets of circle clocks, of Time and of the Tribulation.

Another smaller circle clock is in each center 7th circle. Shortening the Great Tribulation is not shown. Actually, the shortening is between the 6th and 7th seals. The 7th is the day following the 6th.

One seal is broken each year for 6 years. Then in the 7th year, the 7th seal is broken. Out of that 7th seal come the 7 trumpet judgments. Out of the 7th trumpet judgments come the 7 plagues of God's wrath.

Besides this basic outline, between each 6th and 7th seal, trumpet and plague are parenthetic portions of Scripture. There are some other parts that are parenthetic to expand on something told in a nutshell before. To tell where in time these events belong, we have to look for match marks. For instance, to match some, the worldwide earthquake will be mentioned. We have to look for clues. They're provided.

Except for the parenthetic portions, the events move forward in pretty orderly fashion throughout the book. After the Preview of the Rapture in chapter 1, Jesus tells John, "Write the things which thou hast seen (things before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Rapture); The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." The overcomers of all 7 church groups are seen around Christ in Heaven in the Preview. All the star performers are still in his hand, because he has just snatched them up.

As chapter 2 starts, the time is when the Rapture is "at hand." The seven messages are Jesus' assessment of the 7 church groups right before the Rapture. Being the master writer that he is, Jesus reached back into time to give some history of the group the living ones represent. Then Jesus stretched it up to our days. Thus we have the only record of the history of the church in the Bible.

Ephesus describes the 1st century apostolic church. But that isn't all. It is brought right up to the present in verse 5. In it, Jesus, the one who had the seven stars in his hand and the candlesticks around him in Heaven in the Preview, says, "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly (at the Rapture), and WILL REMOVE THY CANDLESTICK out of HIS PLACE (Heaven, as in the Preview and in John 14:2f), EXCEPT THOU REPENT." This is spoken to living believers today that have "left thy first love." Right off the bat, they are warned that unless they repent (confess their sins, I John 1:9), they will be removed out of HIS PLACE, Heaven.

> > The word "after this" and "hereafter" in Rev. 4 would show that after this (judgment of the Churches), than this (the opening of the seals and the tribulation begins). With these specific words being used, I would have trouble seeing the judgment of the church waiting for a later time, say somewhere during the tribulation. What is your take on this?

Door is a symbol of the Rapture. The "open door" is set before the Philadelphians in Rev. 3:8. They are not told to repent, for they already have. Jesus has no words of condemnation for them.
Jam 5:9 says, "Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door." When the Rapture is "at hand," Christ will CHOOSE his Bride. He is the judge, but this is not the Judgment Seat of Christ, which follows the 2nd Rapture. Right after the 1st Rapture, in Rev. 17:14, "they that are with him (the Lamb, the Lord of lords and King of kings) are called, AND CHOSEN, and faithful."

After the man without a wedding garment is cast outside the door, Mt. 22:13,14 says, "there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH. For many are called, but FEW ARE CHOSEN." Luke 12:46 shows the foolish servants being cut off. It says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."

The judging that Christ does at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture determines who is caught up, not what rewards they will get after the Tribulation saints are caught up. Agape

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