Pro and Con 906

Posted 5-24-02

I missed it by one day. It is Av 10 instead of Av 9. See Pro and Con 907

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Re: 10 Virgins and the Delay

There must be something to uncover from the comment that the bridegroom was delayed in the parable of the 10 virgins.

They all went out together. So it would seem that there was agreement on the timing on when to meet the bridegroom. Yet, he delayed (no reason given, but maybe represents the shortened days of the Trib?). But, if the Bride is a select group at the first rapture, and other Christians such as the Laodiceans are sleeping or unattentive, then how is it that the 5 wise and 5 foolish all went out in agreement, as a group, at the same time to meet the Bridegroom?

But, the delay is clearly mentioned. You've spent much time looking for the formal date, such as Pentecost. Your reasons always looked great. Let's assume you are right. Can we work in the shortened days of the 2nd half of the Trib and look beyond Pentecost? Even if we go from the 2nd coming, the judgement of the nations, some more administrative/cleanup time, how many more days before we run out of time for the Fig Tree parable you mark as June 1967?

This must remind you of a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle. You get down to the last 6 or 8 pieces and for a few moments you fool yourself into thinking - I've lost a piece or two, or there is a flaw and they sent me a wrong piece. Next day, all the pieces fit perfectly. Why would we ever doubt? Probably because we have all been 'setup' by putting furniture together and finding a wrong bracket or missing screws and back to the store we go.

The Bible however, is not faulty. Surely we are indeed right at the door. Blessings on you.

My reply


Let's rethink all of this, just meander through, following leads, and see where we end up. The Lord may have a bit of hidden silver for us to find on our way to looking up something else. Pro 2:3-5 says, "Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as SILVER, and searchest for her as for HID TREASURES; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. " In Mark 13:23, Jesus said, "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL THINGS." We have all the clues set before us in the Bible. We just have to find them. Maybe there is just one more thing we need to finish the puzzle.

In Luk 8:15-18, Jesus said, "that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with PATIENCE. No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. For NOTHING IS SECRET, THAT SHALL NOT BE MADE MANIFEST; NEITHER ANY THING HID, THAT SHALL NOT COME ABROAD. Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have."

> > how is it that the 5 wise and 5 foolish all went out in agreement, as a group, at the same time to meet the Bridegroom?

There has been one time when many thought the Rapture would happen--in 1988. Why? simply because that was 40 years after Israel became a nation in 1948. Did they subtract 7 years for the Tribulation. Some did. Others didn't. It just seemed like something important would happen then; nevermind that the fig tree (Israel) had not yet grown leaves in 1948. Some time after the Six-Day War, I wrote Hal Lindsey. I told him I thought that 1988 was too early, that the Six-Day War was the Sign of the End of the Age, because that was when Israel grew leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights) to fulfill the Fig Tree Parable of Mt. 24:32-34.

Israel could not have been 20 or more years old and fulfilled the parable. It had to be fulfilled before she turned 20. In 1967, she was already 19, the last year to be considered young when the Israelites came out of Egypt. Those 20 and up were the only ones counted. They were the ones that died along the way--except Joshua and Caleb.

Joshua (from the Hebrew; Jesus from the Greek) led the way into the promised land. He is a type of Christ. Caleb (meaning dog) followed like a faithful, obedient and beloved hunting dog. Num 32:11,13 says, "Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from TWENTY YEARS OLD and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me: Save Caleb (dog) the son of Jephunneh (for whom it is prepared) the Kenezite (hunting), and Joshua (Jehovah is Saviour) the son of Nun (the eternal, i.e., picturing Jesus the Son of God): for THEY HAVE WHOLLY FOLLOWED THE LORD. And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness FORTY YEARS, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."

When the spies were sent into the promised land, "Moses called Oshea (a saviour, deliverer) the son of Nun (the eternal) Jehoshua (Jehovah is Saviour). And Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan, and said unto them, Get you UP this way southward, and GO UP INTO THE MOUNTAIN (i.e., symbolic of the kingdom of Heaven)...THE TIME WAS THE TIME OF THE FIRSTRIPE GRAPES (late spring or early summer). So they went UP, and searched the land from the wilderness of Zin (thorn, i.e., from Earth) unto Rehob (space)...And they came unto the brook of Eshcol (cluster of grapes), and cut down from thence a branch with ONE CLUSTER OF GRAPES...the place was called the brook Eshcol, because of THE CLUSTER OF GRAPES...AND they RETURNED from searching the land AFTER FORTY DAYS" (Nu. 13:17-25).

The spies carried a huge cluster of grapes to Moses on AV 9. This was the day of the provocation. Psa 95:8 says, "Harden not your heart, as in the PROVOCATION, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness." Heb 3:8 repeats it. This was a day of catastrophe to those who were 20 and up when they came out of Egypt. The spies returned. All but Joshua and Caleb reported that it would be impossible to conquer the Promised Land because of the tallness and strength of the Canaanites. The people began to weep and complain about coming out of Egypt as if that was a big mistake.

Caleb said, "Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it." However, "all the congregation lifted up their voice, and cried; and the people wept that night. And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!...were it not better for us to return to Egypt?" (Num 14:1-3). That "would God we had died in this wilderness" would be fulfilled. We have to be careful what we wish for. We just might get it.

Joshua and Caleb tore their clothes. "But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And THE GLORY OF THE LORD APPEARED IN THE TABERNACLE OF THE CONGREGATION (on Av 9) before all the children of Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them" (Nu. 14:10,11). The Lord said, "Surely they shall not see the land...Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from TWENTY YEARS OLD AND UPWARD, which have murmured against Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun....your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years...until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness" (Nu. 14:22-33).

According to Nu. 10:11,12, the Israelites left Sinai on Iyar 20. It "came to pass on the twentieth day of the second month (IYAR 20), in the second year, that THE CLOUD WAS TAKEN UP from off the tabernacle of the testimony. And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness of Sinai." They were fed quails for one "WHOLE MONTH" (TO SIVAN 20) (Nu. 11:20). After that, Miriam had to be shut out of the camp "SEVEN DAYS (TO SIVAN 27) AND AFTER THAT (ON SIVAN 28) LET HER BE RECEIVED IN AGAIN." (Nu. 12:14). Then Moses sent the spies into the promised land.

CLUE: SIVAN 28 WAS THE TIME OF FIRSTRIPE GRAPES, NOT SIVAN 6, PENTECOST. Moses sent representatives "of every tribe of their fathers" (representing the patriarchs, the 12 elders; Nu. 13:2) into the promised land. THEN THESE SPIES BROUGHT THE CLUSTER OF GRAPES TO MOSES 40 DAYS LATER, ON AV 9.

Since one cluster of grapes seems to represent the Bride of Christ, THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE MIGHT BE ON AV 9. Thus Av 9 would become "to the house of Judah (praise) joy and gladness," a cheerful feast (Zech. 8:19). Wow! if AV 9 (JULY 18, 2002) is the Rapture, it really will be a cheerful feast deluxe.

Zec 8:19 says, "Thus saith the LORD of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6); The fast of the fourth month (Tamuz 17), and the fast of the fifth (Av 9, Tisha be-Av), and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace."

The fast of Av 9 commemorates the loss of both temples. Jer 52:12,13 says, "in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month (Av 10), which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, And burned the house of the LORD." In 70 AD, the fire was started on Av 9 and burst into an inferno in the main sanctuary on Av 10. It may have been the same way when Solomon's temple was burned. The Jews have kept the 9th ever since. Maybe Av 9 and 10 will commemorate the time when the temple of the Holy Spirit is brought to Christ. 1Co 3:16 says, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" The Spirit of God dwelt in the temple, and He dwells in us.

When the last temple was taken away, it began to go up in clouds of smoke on Av 9 in 70 AD. Maybe the temple of the Holy Spirit will will be taken away, go up in clouds, on Av 9 in 2002, converting the fast of Tisha be-Av into a joyful feast day. Although hard to tell who "they" refers to, Isa. 9:18 has the idea. It says, "they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke. AV 9 IS THURSDAY, JULY 18, 2002. It is the 40th day after Sivan 28, when the spies were sent into the promised land. It is the time when one huge bunch of grapes was brought to Moses.

THE JEWS HAVE A TRADITION THAT THE MESSIAH WILL BE BORN ON TISHA BE-AV. Like the Phoenix rising out of the ashes, they think that out of destruction will be born the ultimate redemption. Maybe this will be played out by the Body of Christ being caught up on the day the temple was destroyed, Av 9 (or 10).

For the Jews today, beginning with Tamuz 17, and continuing to Av 9 (Tisha be-Av) is a time of mourning for the loss of both temples, the loss of Jerusalem, and the loss of their national entity in ancient times. This period, called by the Jews "The Three Weeks" (of grief), the "Dark Time" and "Between the Straits," begin and end with fast days. NO WEDDINGS are held during this dark time. This fits, because the Marriage of the Lamb is after the 144,000 virgins are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture (Rev. 14:4,5). They are added to the Bride group "for they are without fault before the throne of God" (Rev. 14:5).

The cluster of grapes brought back by the spies ties in with Song of Sol. 7:7, where the two Raptures are portrayed as parts of one Body of Christ. 1Co 10:17 says, "we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. Song 7:7 likens, "thy breasts to CLUSTERS OF GRAPES." The first Rapture is "ONE CLUSTER OF GRAPES." The second Rapture is the other cluster. The 2 Rapture is also typified in Song 2:17: "Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether (separation).

Rev. 14:14,15 tell us about the second Rapture. It says, "I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat (on a throne, Rev. 6:16,17) like unto the Son of man (the Sign of the Son of Man of Mt. 24:30 is this day), having on his head a golden crown (it is Coronation Day), and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped." This Pre-Wrath Rapture is as the vintage (i.e., Tishri 1).

After the Pre-Wrath Rapture, another sickle gathers "the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe." These are cast into the "winepress of the wrath of God" (Rev. 14: 18,19).

Hos 2:9 Therefore will I RETURN, AND TAKE AWAY (i.e., Pre-Trib Rapture) MY CORN (grain, wheat) IN THE TIME THEREOF (no feast mentioned), AND my wine in the season (mowed, festival) thereof, (the Feast of Trumpets, i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture) and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness."

Mt. 24:32-34 says, "When his (i.e., Israel's) branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel) is yet tender (apalos, soft and tender, full of sap, i.e., young new growth, in other words, Israel was to be no more than 19, which she was in 1967), and putteth forth leaves (grows, which she did in 1967, sprouting the Sinai, West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza Strip leaves), ye know that summer is nigh (the Six Day War started June 5. Summer started June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it ('the kingdom of God,' Lu. 21:31) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the Rapture, Rev. 3:8; 4:1). Verily (amen, i.e., this is important) I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." 1967 + 40 = 2007. A generation was 40 years in Mt. 23:36--30 AD to 70 AD. The Israelites wandered in the wilderness 40 years while one generation died off.

It looks like about 42 years is a generation in the genealogy in Mt. 1. However, I don't see how we can add 2 years to the Jewish 5768. There has to be 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) between the Day of Destruction on Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1. The years 5769 and 5770 are not leap years with a 13th month. Therefore, to go to the next Jewish leap year (with a 13th month), we'd have to jump to 5771. That's our 2010/2011.

With the things going on in Israel now, I don't see how the Day of Destruction and the Second Coming could be that far away. Already, Arafat's sins seem to warrant the Day of Destruction. Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture) in the day of the LORD'S anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron (meaning eradication) shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast." The mountain-sized asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea.

Some thought Christ would return to get his Bride in 1988. Others, including me, thought he would return FOR his Bride in 1998. I still think he will return WITH his Bride in 2008--88,98,08. Hmmm. Prophecies often cast their shadows before them.

Now, we are awaiting the midnight cry. We must keep our vessels filled with oil, wait patiently and walk with God. The time seems short.

> > how many more days before we run out of time for the Fig Tree parable you mark as June 1967?

In 30 AD, from Nisan 8, when Jesus arrived in Bethany before he presented himself as king on Palm Sunday, to Av 10, when Israel lost the temple, and its area, was 40 years, plus an additional 120 days. That destruction was because Jesus was refused as king.

Israel regained the temple area on 28 Iyar in 1967. From then to Tishri 1, 5768 is also 40 years, plus an additional 120 days. First, add the 40 years, then add another 120 days.

I think Christ will be crowned with his golden crown in Heaven on Tishri 1, 5768 (our Sept. 13, 2007). The destruction of this Day of God (II Pet. 3:12) will be because those left on Earth still refuse him as king. Israel will finally see the light. The whole nation will be born in a day--that day (Isa. 66:8).

Mt. 23:36 clearly shows us that a generation is 40 years. Jesus told the Pharisees that all those things would fall on that generation. They did, in 70 AD. This also fulfilled the 40 year iniquity of Judah portrayed by Ezekiel. The Lord told Ezekiel, "thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year" (Eze. 4:6).

Forty years from the Six-Day War of 1967 is 2007. Seven good and seven bad years previous to Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) is Tishri 1, 5754, when the Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel 3 days after they were signed on Sept. 13, 1993.

We seem to have the section of time right from Sept. 13, 1993 to Sept. 13, 2007 (1993 + 7 good years + 7 bad years = 2007). The 1st Intifada started in 1993. The 2nd Intifada started on Sept. 29, 2000. The problem has been in figuring out how much the Great Tribulation is shortened.

I went to

Checking on the number of days between 2 dates turned up something unexpected. Thursday is emphasized. Christ was crucified on Thursday. From Thursday, July 18, 2002 (Av 9, Tisha be-Av), to Thursday, September 13, 2007, is 1883 days. That could be the shortened Tribulation.

From Thursday, July 18, 2002, to Thursday, December 29, 2005, is 1260 days. Thus, Mid-Trib would be 12-29-05 (Kislev 30, the 5th day of Hanukkah), and the Great Tribulation would last 623 days, or 1.71 years instead of 1260 days, or 3 1/2 years.

The sun is supposed to enter the constellation Cancer (the Crab) on June 22, and move on to Leo (the Lion) on July 23. That's interesting. Av 9 is between those dates. Cancer in Arabic is from khan, the travellers resting place, and cer, which means encircled or embraced. It stands for Heaven, a holding place (until we come back with the Lion of the tribe of Judah), and Cancer was the sign of Judah, of whom Jesus is descended.

The brightest star is Acubene, the sheltering, or hiding place. Another name for it is Ma Alaph, the assembled thousands. The next brightest star is Teqmine, the fold or holding. Another star is Al Himarein, the kids or lambs. In God's picture book in the stars, the ship Argo, a Decan of Cancer, means the company of travellers. This ship will unload the lambs in Heaven. To be sure we get that message, two Decans of Cancer are the greater and lesser sheepfolds, now known as Ursa Major and Ursa Minor. The Crab's many legs stood for a multitude, or multiplication, in hieroglyphics.

Just to show how well the stars tell the gospel of Christ, here is the sky over Jerusalem at noon on Sept. 13, 2007.

I think that is the day when Christ will be crowned King of kings and Lord of Lords. Saturn (Heaven) will be in conjunction with Regulus, the king star in Leo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah. In this picture, the Moon is hiding Mercury. There will be 5 planets in the sky at noon (when the asteroid impacts Earth), Pluto, Jupiter, Mercury, Saturn and Venus.

The Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754 (1993). In 1993, the tactic Intifada began, and 43 Palestinian terrorists died in 38 separate suicide attacks. Jesus said that a house divided against itself can't stand, but of course, they aren't listening to anything Jesus had to say, so they keep killing themselves off.

On Sept. 29, 2000, the 2nd Intifada started. At 6 PM, the Jewish Tishri 1, 5761, the Feast of Trumpets began. Trumpets ended at 6 PM on our Sept. 30, 2000. Since then, about 3 times the Palestinians have died than Israelis. How do they expect to stand if this keeps up? Does Arafat, born in Egypt, hate the Jews so much that he cares nothing for the Palestinians? He is sacrificing them on the altar of his Intifada. Hang in there. Blessings and agape

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