Pro and Con 92, Uploaded 5-3-98
Incoming Email I was perusing your Web site again today, and was blessed as usual. I am a 67-year-old grandfather of seven, from three sons (3 and 7 are good numbers to go out on).
Curious: When did you first began to see that the rapture would be on Pentecost 1998?
My reply I am 69, have five grandchildren and three great grandchildren. Eight means new beginning, so that isn't too bad, either.
> When did you first began to see that the rapture would be on Pentecost 1998?
It was in 1968. I had begun intensive Bible study before 1960, maybe about 1957 or 1958. By June 5, 1968, I had kept mulling over the Six-Day War all year. You know how you tuck something back there in your brain and pull it up to think about it at times. It just seemed so significant that Israel got the rest of Jerusalem and the temple area. I kept studying, and when Bobby Kennedy died on the anniversary of the beginning of the Six-Day War, I had to sit up and take notice. That was so strange, he was brain dead for several hours, yet God kept his heart beating so that the date would read June 5. To me, it was like hitting one's fist in the other open hand--punctuation. I thought, "Look at this date. It is important." Suddenly, everything just finally jelled. I saw God's plan of the major end-time events. The one I was wrong on for the first couple of years was the Translation of the Tribulation Saints. At first, I thought it was in the middle of the Tribulation. Later, I found that it is on the 2300th day of the Tribulation.
Later, I figured out when I thought the Judgment of the Nations would be. Satan must have dominion for the full seven years. Then dominion is given to Him whose right it is. I got the beginning of Armageddon pegged, for it is Satan's last ditch stand. It breaks out as soon as dominion is taken from Satan. Then I bogged down. I tried and tried, but I just could not figure out how long Armageddon lasted. Finally, in exasperation, I told the Lord he would have to show me.
I was shocked when he did. It rained 40 days and 40 nights (counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning) here in normally sunny Southern California. The rain started Saturday, Jan. 18 and ended Feb, 26, 1969. I have the tab section printed by the Santa Ana Register called "The Savage Storm" with the exact dates. There were two huge storms, and it never ceased raining between them. It just rained lighter. My husband had to go out in the pouring rain and ditch around our garage to keep the water from running through the garage like a river.
We had to order a copy of the tab section with all the pictures. It cost 50 cents. I could hardly believe it when it came in the mail on March 20, 1969, for that was Nisan 1, the day Christ will return on. Whew.
As I open it, the heading reads, "Rain--A Blessing That Became A Curse." It gives the beginning date and tells about the first storm coming from the South Pacific when the weather bureau in Los Angeles had called for only "late morning cloudiness" that day and "scattered light showers" the next day. Then it says, "But it didn't stop raining. It just kept coming. Southern California was hit with a nine-day deluge that took 86 lives...inflicted $10 million in damages...and prompted President Nixon to designate the state a federal disaster area." Old timers at Silverado Canyon had "never seen a storm like that one. But they would again--in a little more than three weeks--a storm of such violence and destruction as to practically wipe out Silverado, kill five of its residents and inflict more misery, damage and heartbreak on Orange County than at any other time in its history."
"By Tuesday morning, Orange County was in the grip of a full blown disaster, probably the worst in its history." "The savage storm broke a rainfall record for February that had stood for 85 years...It was a record Southern Californians hope stands forever." The last page says, "Wednesday February 26th. PEACE RETURNS TO THE VALLEY."
I would rather have not known than have all that happen, but I had no way of knowing ahead of time.
Now, today, I am wondering about all this unseasonable snow. Is it possible that it is the virgins' wake-up call. Think about it.
It snowed 5" in Jerusalem just before spring. That was the second time lately too. It snowed 5" in New York the first day of Spring. It is still snowing in our mountains here in Southern California. Todays paper (4-14-98) says, "showers of rain and snow; snow level will average 4,500 feet."
The unusual weather is brought by El Nino, named for the Christ child for it came at Christmas time when they named it.
Incoming Email Re: I'm not going to be "nice"
> I think that all date-setting predictions about a so-called "rapture" are
> wrong, including yours. What's going to happen to all your precious Bible
> study when you are proven wrong?
My reply Well, in contrast, I am going to be nice. Paul went so far as to say, "O FOOLISH Galatians, who hath bewitched you," but that is as far as he went. He did not tell anyone he was not going to be nice.
Peter gave us a list of things we should add to our faith to make our "calling and election sure." Here is his list, "that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature": virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly KINDNESS, charity (agape love). "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind (like the Laodiceans), and cannot see afar off (Heaven at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren (believers), give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (II Peter 1:4-11).
(Note: I visited his Web page, and he did say that his ideas were not necessarily those of the college where he works.)
I am Baptist also. I took a look at your subjects and found the Rapture missing. I take it that you must not believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture at all. We are promised Heaven. When do you think we get there?
What do you think the open door is set before the Philadelphians for? Why are the Laodiceans spewed out of his mouth? When do the wise virgins go with the Bridegroom? Why are the foolish virgins left behind? Mt. 25:10 says, "the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and THE DOOR WAS SHUT."
The first Rapture is as the days of Noah. What happened to those after Noah and his family went into the Ark, and THE DOOR WAS SHUT? As for me, I want inside the Ark before the door is shut.
I believe Jesus when he says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (peirasmou), which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD, to try (peirasai) them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly" (Rev. 3:10.11).
(Note: Thank God that he "will with the temptation (peirasmo, trial, i.e., Tribulation) also make a way to escape" [i.e., Rapture II], I Cor. 10:13.)
Incoming Email There is documented evidence that the UN accepted Israel as a nation on May 14 1998. As for the regaining of Jerusalem, Jerusalem is not the nation of Israel. The nation is set aside to GOD to be a kingdom of priests. 49 years olod is the last year up until the 50th birthday that you can become a priest on or after the fiftieth birthday it is too late. MAY 14 1998 is 50 years as a nation.
I do not wish to argue at all I do believe the rapture is very near. As for appointing a certain date I believe the DAY or HOUR is unknown. I do however believe you can know the year and even the month. Since the Lords gathering of his church is IMMINENT wouldn't this be the most logical conclusion to take? I'll put it this way, I believe before MAY 14 it should happen. If it doesn't, I'll continue to look for that BLESSED HOPE, and continue to love the LORD even more perhaps. Thanks
My reply > There is documented evidence that the UN accepted Israel as a nation on May 14 1998.
I think you meant to type 1948. Are you sure you have your facts straight, or are you speaking off the top of your head? The US accepted Israel as a nation right away, but not the UN. On page 214, in The 1986 Information Please Almanac that I grabbed off my shelf, it says, "At the cease-fire Jan. 7, 1949, Israel increased its original territory by 50%...Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion became Israel's first president and prime minister. The new government was admitted to the U.N. May 11, 1949." In the list of United Nations' member nations on page 317, Israel is listed as becoming a member in 1949. 1949 + 50 = 1999. I see no conflict with a May 31, 1998 Pentecost Rapture.
Luke 21:24 says, "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED." The Times of the Gentiles ended June 7, 1967, when Jerusalem and the temple area again belonged to Israel. This was a great watershed of history. Don't you think it is likely that when the temple area again belonged to Israel that God again began the 30-year countdown to when Israel could serve as priests?
> the Lords gathering of his church is IMMINENT
The word "imminent" is not in Strong's or Young's concordance. I know it is widely taught, but is this a doctrine of men, or of God? Are people all over the place mouthing man's words, or God's? God has appointed times (feasts, moedim, moed: prop. an appointment, i.e., a fixed time) to meet with man.
The Lord has a pre-conceived plan. He does things at set times. In Gen. 18:14, the LORD told Sarah, "At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son." In Ex. 9:5, "the LORD appointed a set time, saying, To morrow the LORD shall do this thing in the land." Nu. 9:13 says, "because he brought not the offering of the LORD in his appointed season, that man shall bear his sin." Dan. 11:27 says, "yet the end shall be at the time appointed."
Scripture says, in Jeremiah 5:24 (Dr. Tabor's translation for the Original Bible Project), "and he keeps for us Shavuot, appointed for the harvest." The Lord keeps Pentecost (Shavuot), which is appointed for the harvest.
The Spirit of Christ came to the Church on Pentecost in 30 A.D. He kept that Pentecost, and I expect him to keep this Pentecost, since Shavuot is appointed for the harvest. We are wheat, and Pentecost is the wheat harvest. It is when Boaz (kinsman-redeemer type of Christ) chose Ruth (type of the Gentile Bride of Christ) as his bride. Since the Lord has set up this feast for the harvest, would he keep any other day?
We are "a kind of firstfruits" (James 1:18). I think the Bride of Christ is "The FIRST of the firstfruits" that shall be brought "into the house of the LORD thy God" on Pentecost (Exodus 23:19).
> I do not wish to argue at all I do believe the rapture is very near.
I don't wish to argue, either. I just want to operate in the agape love imparted to us by the Holy Spirit to help people look at what the scriptures really indicate.
I Peter 4:8 says, "And above all things have fervent charity (agape, God's love) among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins."
> I believe before MAY 14 it should happen.
If it doesn't happen by May 14, please do take another look at Pentecost.
It looks to me like this spring is the season of harvest. Prov. 25:13 says, "As the cold of SNOW IN THE TIME OF HARVEST, so is a faithful messenger to them that send him." Christ is a faithful messenger and the Rapture is the wheat harvest. This unseasonable snow seems significant. Maybe it is the virgins' wake-up call.
It snowed in Jerusalem just before spring, in New York on the first day of spring, and is still snowing in our local Southern California mountains. The paper said, "snow arriving" on Easter, and today's paper (4-14-98) says, "Cloudy, windy and cold today with showers of rain and snow; snow level will average 4,500 feet." Also, look at this news from Moscow. Note that it was unexpected, as was Jerusalem's, where it was first hot, then blowing so much sand the air was orange, then rain that suddenly turned to snow and left a 5" white blanket behind.
Monday April 13 10:06 AM EDT, Blizzard whites out Moscow
MOSCOW, April 13 (UPI) _ An unexpected two-day blizzard has dumped at least 12 inches of snow on Moscow, bringing the city to a standstill and howls of rage from the mayor's office.
The blizzard, which shows no signs of abating, has closed roads and airports, and forced many Muscovites to walk home from work.
Moscow's Mayor Yuri Luzhkov, clearly in a rage after the national weather center predicted Moscow should expect warm weather and sunshine, says the city will set up its own weather service.
In the Song of Solomon (2:10-14), we find that at the time the Bride of Christ is to rise up, winter is over, the latter rains of Nisan are over, the May flowers have appeared, there are green figs and the firstripe grapes. This time slot is so narrow that Pentecost is the only feast that fits the criteria.
Incoming Email I would appreciate your comment on the following:
Since last year when I received a copy of his fax, I have been most intrigued with the Jerusalem rabbi's insights about the "over 30 -- under 50" age criterion for priesthood, and Israel entering her period of end-time priesthood. However, I have been uncertain as to the proper way to calculate it. The concept bears witness to me.
The rabbi sees the "under 50" window closing on May 14, 1998. I understand your reasoning that the window will not close until the 50th year is complete on May 14, 1999. Assuming you are correct, by this same reckoning would you not have to be consistent and say that Jerusalem will not be "over 30" until June 7, 1998, when the 30th year is complete (not when it begins), making the window by your reasoning June 7, 1998 to May 14, 1999?
True, Scripture says "from 30 to 50," but undoubtedly means "over 30 and under 50." Thanks
I'll answer the last part first.
> True, Scripture says "from 30 to 50," but undoubtedly means "over 30 and under 50."
I have an idea that birthdays were actually counted from Tishri 1, even if one was born sometime before that. Adam was created on Friday, yet is traditionally counted to have been created on Tishri 1, which was Saturday, the day God rested. Since the creating and making set forth in Genesis 1 was complete, that Saturday was the true beginning of the operation of this kosmos, order of things. I think that "from 30 to 50" means from the Tishri 1 when a priest turned 30 to the Tishri 1 when he turned 50. Jesus began his ministry when he was "about thirty" (Luke 3:23), not after he was 30.
People keep asking about the 30th and 50th year, forcing me to take another look at this. I think the 30th year is to be counted from the time Israel took the temple area on June 7, 1967 (1967 + 30 = 1997), because Israel's priests need to become of eligible age to officiate after the Bride of Christ is caught up to Heaven, which I think is this coming Pentecost. Sacrificing is to begin at the rebuilt temple at the beginning of the Tribulation, which I think is the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost, 2001.
I also think we are to count from June 7, 1967, when the rest of Jerusalem and the temple area were taken by Israel, because at that time, the times of the Gentiles was fulfilled. Luke 21:24 says, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED." This was a watershed of history for Israel.
The Jubilee Year is being counted by Israel as starting this May 14 (Note: they celebrated April 30 and May 1, Iyar 4 and 5, the anniversary on the Jewish calendar. May 14 is the anniversary on our calendar). It continues for one full year. It is not a Jubilee Day, as Pastor Riley assumed. It does not begin and end the same day. Actually, the Jubilee Year was to be announced on the preceding Day of Atonement and begin the following Nisan 1, which was March 28 this year.
I see nothing that would interfere with a Rapture on the upcoming Pentecost on May 31. But, I can see something that might interfere with a Rapture ON OR BEFORE May 14.
According to the Song of Solomon 2:10-14, the Rapture will be when winter is over, when the latter rain of the Jewish Nisan is over, when April showers bring May flowers, when there are green figs and the grapes give a good smell. This narrow time slot can only be late May or early June, when the grapes begin to ripen. Pentecost is the only feast that fits, and it is the only feast that belongs to the church.
Those that think the Rapture must come before May 14 evidently fail to see that in Israel, the "grapes begin to ripen" on Pentecost (Unger's Bible Dictionary, p. 164). After the Israelites left Sinai, where they were on Pentecost, and journeyed on to Kadesh-barnea, the spies were sent into the land at "the time of the firstripe grapes."
Dr. Tabor, who is translating the Bible for the Original Bible Project, translates Jeremiah 5:24 as "and he keeps for us Shavuot, appointed for the harvest."
The Lord said HE keeps Pentecost for us. He did when he came to the church in 30 A.D. and, I believe that he will keep it when he comes to the church this Pentecost "wheat" harvest, May 31, 1998, Sivan 6, 5758. Remember that there are two wave loaves offered at Pentecost. This suggests a double fulfillment of this feast.
Boaz, the kinsman-redeemer type of Christ, chose the Gentile Ruth as his bride at the wheat harvest on Pentecost. Israel was espoused to God on Pentecost at Sinai too.
> The rabbi sees the "under 50" window closing on May 14, 1998.I understand your reasoning
> that the window will not close until the 50th year is complete on May 14, 1999.
When I said this, I did not think about it, but the priests were to officiate through the 49th year, but NOT in the 50th year. I should have taken time to look up the Scripture. Numbers 4:3 says, From thirty years old and upward even UNTIL fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation." Only the Levites could do the work in the tabernacle. Thus, this is probably not referring to Israel as a nation of priests, but to the Levitic priesthood, which ties in with Israel taking the temple area in 1967.
However, there are those that think it refers to national Israel. If so, the latest date that we could add 50 years to would be May 11, 1949, when Israel's new government was admitted to the UN after their war of independence ended on Jan. 7, 1949. (May 11, 1949 + 50 = May 11, 1999. After this date would be too late if this is the way it is to be counted. However, I do not think it is to be counted this way, because the Jews must officiate at the temple during the Tribulation.
Incoming Email Thank you so much for the impact that youve had on my and countless others' lives with your "call" to us of the coming joyfull events. I have been undergoing such a transformation over the past year. I've also been reading your message for about the last three months. I was once very involved in the work of the gospel but then fell away (hard) after some difficult circumstances. Its been a long hard path in coming back but over the past year I have been drawn back very strongly by our Savior and God to his credit who never gave up on me or revoked his promise or seal on me. During those dark years, in most certainly the darkest hour of my life, I commited adultry. That was two years ago. One year later, I confessed to my wife that and many other sins. After a heartwrenching nearly marriage ending period of time my life began to turn around. I feel it all started to happen with the completely unimagable decision to obey God in confession to my wife. That led me down the path of more and more obedience which praise God has brought me to the point Im at today. A few months ago, I was led to your site by an angel (weither really an angel or merely a very mysterious circumstance, I'll find out when I get to heaven but regardless an "angel" to me) and had been further transformed in spirit by the rapture wakeup call. Marylin, am I destined to go though the tribulation because of my adultry? If so, I'ld like to know straight so I can prepare myself. I must confess there's a part of me that wants to "wash my robe in blood" and be given the opportunity to stand up for my God in the face of the worst given my miserable failures of the past. Of course the majority of me knows the terror of those times and is deathly afraid (and in terror of my young children being "struck dead"). Tell me straight at least more clearly your understanding of the message to the church of Thyatira. I see that Christ will "also give him the morning star." Is there more in "Revelations 2000"? I have the book but have been passing it around to as many as I can. It's been a long struggle for me, but lately I was feeling such that the Lord was cheering me in down the homestretch of the "race" and waiting like the father of the prodigal son for me at the finish line and I still feel that way. I know the Lord can and longs to restore what the locust have destroyed, to his glory. I regard either path, rapture or tribulation, as an opportunity. Whats your discernment tell you about any Thyatirian who comes home and "has ear"?
I am so pleased that you have heeded your wake up call.
< am I destined to go though the tribulation
No! You surely know that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23). Does that mean that ALL are to go through the Tribulation? No. In the message to the church of Thyatira, Jesus said, "I gave her space to repent." You have turned around and changed your mind. That makes a difference. Now use I John 1:9, confess all known sins to God himself, and he will be faithful and just to forgive you and to cleanse you of ALL unrighteousness. Jesus wants us to wash our robes in his blood. Those in the Tribulation have to do it (Rev. 7:14); why wait till then when you'll have to do it anyway?
And, don't wait to confess. King David waited a whole year and said it was as if God's hand was pressing down on him. Being out of fellowship with God is no good. David finally turned around, confessed his sin, got right with God and earned the right to rule again under Christ during the Millennium.
You should not wait as David did. Get everything under the blood NOW. Then you too will be in the group John spoke of in Rev. 1:7: "And hath made us KINGS AND PRIESTS unto God and his Father." Jesus will give you the morning star. Notice that there is no mention of the Tribulation saints being kings in Rev. 7:15. They "serve him day and night in his temple."
Of course, he is cheering the prodigal son home. We all are. You can switch from being a foolish virgin to being a wise virgin now. Don't delay. Time is short. You will want to earn some rewards in Heaven after you are filled with His Holy Spirit, and we may not have much time left.
After confessing, forget the past. God has wiped it off the books, and you can't reroll it anyway. Christians are to live for the future.
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