Pro and Con 923

Posted 7-2-02

http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/
The second image shows how this event evolved as a coronal mass ejection (CME) cloud just minutes later as it moved in an hour and a half through the field of view of LASCO C2. A CME blasts billions of tons of matter at millions of miles (kilometers) per hour into space....

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The day the sun caught fire, by Ed Harris
This spectacular eruption of superheated gases, shooting a flame hundreds of thousands of miles long into space from the sun, was captured on film by an orbiting satellite.

Overheating: the solar flare erupts blasting particles into space. The solar eruption, which is more than 240,000 miles long, burst from the surface of the sun...

Past eruptions have knocked out satellites, wrecked television reception and caused power surges and blackouts, but this one was fortunately not aimed at us....
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Congress unites in fear of world 'government,' by James Bone
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-344149,00.html
NY 7-2-02 AMERICA'S conservatives see the creation of the first global criminal court as another step towards a sinister "world government" that threatens US sovereignty. They denounce the new tribunal as a "kangaroo court" set up by a deeply suspect United Nations. "The White House is bowing to conservatives who have a kneejerk reaction to any international body that has even the most remote authority to tell the United States what to do," The New York Times commented.

But the opposition in this case extends across the political spectrum. Congress has taken the extraordinary step of passing legislation that would authorise military action to free any American taken into custody. “Even Hillary Clinton voted for it,” one congressional aide said. “The idea that it’s some right-wing paranoid fear about the International Criminal Court (ICC) is not true.
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Peres Calls for a New Partner
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=26096
7-2-02 (IsraelNN.com) Foreign Minister Shimon Peres last night announced Israel must seek a new partner to replace Yasser Arafat. Peres made his comments during the Labor party committee meeting in Tel Aviv, explaining that after the US declared Arafat is not the partner who will bring a peace agreement to the PA, Israel must seek another partner.
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Arafat Should Read Writing on Wall
http://www.nydailynews.com/2002-06-30/News_and_Views/Opinion/a-155979.asp
6-30-02...Bush is the first leader since Olso with the guts and integrity to disregard the hand wringers at the State Department and elsewhere and join Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in calling a terrorist a terrorist. And support for this position is growing. The key Arab states of
Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia appear ready to join the "dump Arafat" movement. He has caused trouble for all of them for years....

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Pope will not retire
http://wire.ap.org/APnews/?SITE=OHCIN&FRONTID=HOME
VATICAN CITY (AP) - The Vatican specialist who collaborated with Pope John Paul II on the best-selling book "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" says the pontiff has firmly decided not to retire.

In a front-page article Saturday in the Milan daily Corriere della Sera, Vittorio Messori quoted what he said he had deduced from the pope's thoughts on the subject:

"The force to continue is not my problem but that of Christ, who wanted to call me, though unworthy, to be his vicar on Earth. In His mysterious design, He has brought me here. And it will be He who decides my fate."
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94th Anniversary Of Siberian Tunguska Blast Mystery
By Elena Kiseleva PRAVDA.Ru, Translated by Dmitry Sudakov

http://www.rense.com/general26/here.htm
6-29-02 A very powerful blast took place 94 years ago 70 kilometers far from the settlement of Vanavara in Russiaís Siberian republic of Evenkiya. The power of the explosion was equal to two thousand explosions of Hiroshima A-bomb.

A huge meteorite flew over the vast territory of West Siberia on June 30, 1908 at 7:15 a.m. The people, who could see the meteorite in cloudless sky, were horrified with its bright light and rattling sounds. People said that they could see a big ball of fire flying eastwards and falling in the woods. When scientists evinced their interest in the meteorite, they calculated the damage of the Earth ñ 2000 square kilometers. The blast of the year 1908 changed the magnetic field of the Earth: the magnetic storm, which was registered on the outskirts of the Russian city of Irkutsk, lasted for 3.5 hours.

Strange consequences of the collision continued 15-20 hours after the catastrophe: unusual luminescence of the atmosphere and noctilucent clouds were registered on the territory, which totaled 12 million square kilometers. The radiance of the sky was so bright, that people could not fall asleep ñ the light was so bright that you could easily read a newspaper at night.

Thousands of square kilometers of woods were burnt.

From Five Doves site

Re: "Biblical Astronomy, July, 2002 Newsletter!!!"
Editor – Robert Scott Wadsworth
posted by James Hacker 6-28-02
Email :jpiehiii@hotmail.com
http://www.fivedoves.com/latterdayletters/showletter.php?id=2279

My reply

> > What Bob Wadsworth suggests as to the meaning of the two fish (in Pisces) is, the one heading north represents Ephraim or the ten tribes of Israel who were taken captive to the north by the Assyrians, and the other fish as representing Judah who was taken captive to the east by Babylon over 125 years later.
> > The Sign Pisces represents Israel in affliction and bondage, or captivity as emphasized in its decan constellations of The Band, and Andromeda, the chained women. It is the Messiah, represented by the Sign Aries who will break the bands of captivity and bondage

My understanding is that the 2 fish in Pisces represent two groups of believers at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. Notice that the Lamb of God (Aries) has his foot on the band tied to both fish. This shows that both represent believers in the Body of Christ. The smaller fish heading north toward Christ (Cepheus the great king) in a hurry represents those wise virgins who are caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. The larger fish (the foolish virgins) is going back to get more water (Holy Spirit) from Christ, i.e., Aquarius, who is busy pouring water (Holy Spirit) into the mouth of the huge Southern Fish (the great multitude of Tribulation saints). All 3 groups of saints represented by the 3 fish are part of the Body of Christ. Agape

From 5 Doves site

Re: GT Grenough, "Rapture 2002," June 28th, 2002
http://www.fivedoves.com/latterdayletters/showletter.php?id=2246

My reply

I appreciate the thought you put into this. I have a few ideas that you also may want to consider. My comments are marked ***.

> > THE MYSTERY OF HOSEA 6:2: SOLVED
> > For decades people have wondered if Hosea 6:2 meant what it said. If it did, well, then 2 days of God’s time are allotted to the church age and after that God begins dealing with the Jewish people....
> > “After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.” This is a major clue to the cryptogram of the Bible’s Rapture Time Frame.

***Look at Hos. 5:14,15. The Lord of hosts, the Redeemer, i.e., Christ (Isa. 44:6) was talking as if His ascension was at hand. He said, "I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and AS A YOUNG LION (see the Lunar Eclipse, of the young lion seen over Jerusalem, on my Home Page) to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear (taraph, rend in pieces, pluck off) and go away (yalak, take away, vanish); I will take away (nasa, lift up, i.e., when Christ took the saints in Paradise to Heaven on Resurrection Day) and none shall rescue him. I will go and return to my place (Heaven, for he is the Lord from Heaven, see I Co 15:47 below), till they (the Jews) acknowledge their offence, and seek my face (Jesus Christ's): in their affliction (the Day of God's Wrath) they will seek me early." The nation will be born in a day on the Day of God's Wrath (Isa. 66:8), when they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f).

***1Co 15:47 says, "The first man (Adam, a son of God created by God, Luke 3:38) is of the earth, earthy: the second man (Jesus Christ, The Son of God) is the Lord from heaven." He is the YHVH of hosts in Isa. 44:6.

***As Hosea 6 starts out, Christ is no longer speaking. In verses 1-3, Israel says, "Come, and let us (Israelites) return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (2000 years) will he revive us (Israel, fulfilled in 1948): in the third day (3rd millennium after Jerusalem was lost and Solomon's temple burned) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight (1948). Then shall we know, if we follow on (i.e., to the Six-Day War in 1967) to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." Jesus came as the former rain (Tishri 1) at the First Advent and will come as the latter rain (Nisan 1) at the Second Advent.

> > There are several excellent sites which also frame the Passover the year Jesus died at AD 31. Adding 2 Jewish Days (2,000 years) to this time frame equates to 1971 years. This brings us to the year 2002.

***I think the Crucifixion was in 30 AD. It fits all criteria. AD 31 misses. Nisan 14 was Wednesday, Apr. 25 in 31 AD. Since the Crucifixion was on the preparation day for Passover, that would make the Crucifixion on Tuesday. That won't fit.

Nisan 14 was Friday, Apr. 7 in 30 AD. Jesus was crucified on "the preparation of the passover" (Mark 14:12), on Thursday, April 6, 30 AD. The Passover was on Friday, Apr. 7. The iniquity of Judah was 40 years (Eze. 4:6), i.e., from 30 to 70 AD. It fits.

> > (the Jewish calendar has approximately 11 less days per year than the Christian).

***Whoever figured this must have forgotten that at the end of each 19-year cycle, the Jewish and Gregorian calendars are not far apart. If I remember right, it is only a few hours off. At the end of 57 years, they are just about the same.

***The 6 types of Jewish Years have 353, 354, 355, 383, 384, and 385 days each. Besides this, they have 7 extra months in each 19-year cycle. I added those days and divided by 6 to get an average. It came out 369 days. That is near our 365 days, but is not exact, for these do not happen in 6 successive years. It just shows us that the 2 calendars aren't too far apart. The leap years are roughly every 3rd year. The best way is to compare the two calendars at 19-year and 57-year intervals.

> > When Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt, and they initially refused to enter the Promised Land (that generation), God told them (20 years was the break point), they wouldn’t see it.

> > God then confirms further in the Psalms that a generation (for a man) is fourscore years, i.e., eighty years.

***In Mt. 23:36, Jesus told the Pharisees, "Verily (Amen, so be it) I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION." They did in 70 AD, 40 years after the Crucifixion in 30 AD. Thus "this generation" in Mt. 24:32-34 is also 40 years.

> > Israel was recognized by the UN (which late last year appointed 10 members to its Security Council) in 1949. Adding sixty years to this generation (eighty less twenty as per the Bible’s instructions) leaves us with sixty years.

> > Sixty years ends in 2009. Subtracting a 7-year Tribulation Period brings us to a very interesting and confirmed year - 2002.

***1967 + 40 = 2007. We can't subtract 20 from 80. When the Israelites came out of Egypt, those 20 and up were counted. The number 20 had no bearing on the 40 years in the wilderness. It just determined who would die during those 40 years, those 20 and up, except Joshua and Caleb.

> > THE SEASON FOR THE RAPTURE

> > Marilyn Agee, in her excellent Web Pages, has been used by the Lord to guide us into truth (confirmed by independent Bible Code studies) that according to the Song of Solomon, which typifies the Rapture (in terms of the season -- you always perhaps wondered why that Book was in the Bible) -- the Summer months are statistically the ones containing the highest probability.

> > In fact, the Jews who remain lament (in the Bible) “the summer is over, and we are not saved.”

> > The coded messages in typology form in the Song of Solomon are striking if you study them. Paul wrote these things are examples and types of what is to come.

> > SIGNS

> > Marilyn Agee in her Web Pages has done an extraordinary job of pointing out the Signs in the Sky in the last several years (at least a two year warning).

> > Anyone serious about studying what she has researched only need look up her web site. The signs are indeed extraordinary and could fill a short book.

***Thanks. It is: http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee

> > Three of the most reliable, ancient calendars on the Web, agree that the opening of Y'shua's ministry to Israel was in Abib/Nisan in a.d. 28, Jewish year 3788. They date His closing Passion Week as occurring in Abib/Nisan, a.d. 31, Jewish year 3791. These calendars also contain the Gregorian date, day, time, and Jewish dates of the vernal equinoxes for a.d. 28 and a.d. 31. They also name the dates/days of the week in both Gregorian dates and Jewish dates.

The Web addresses for these three calendars are as follows:
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/Passover_dates.htm
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/SpringPhenom.html
http.//www.iiug.org/member/cdi_archive/1999.03/cdii.29588

***The 1st URL has a chart.
In 30 AD, Nisan 14 was Friday, April 7
In 31 AD, Nisan 14 was Wed., April 25
Friday will work, Wednesday won't. I think the Crucifixion was on Thur., April 6, 30 AD.

> > Y'shua's birth and the coming to planet earth for all mankind, occurred at the end of summer/beginning of the Fall, which was the time of the beginning of "the former rain" or "early rain" (upon the newly plowed ground after the fall harvest), in Israel. His birth in the fall, occurred 6 months after John the Baptist's birth in the spring, in the month of Abib/Nisan.

> > Y'shua's coming to the nation of Israel to begin his earthly ministry occurred at the end of "the time of latter rain", or the "last rain" after winter, just before the beginning of the first spring harvest of the barley in Israel.

***His 1st coming was as the former rain, Tishri 1. His 2nd coming will be as the latter rain, Nisan 1.

***Eze. 29:17 sets the date, "in the first month, in the first day of the month" (Nisan 1). Then verse 21 says, "In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Word, the Logos) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD." Agape

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Re: Rapture 2002
I am totally baffled by these posts. Both you and Grenough agree with 2002, but get to this date in different ways. Then you go on to say that the date is 1 Nisan which is April. April 2002 is past, so why the post?

My reply

I wrote:
***His (Christ's)1st coming was as the former rain, Tishri 1. His 2nd coming will be as the latter rain, Nisan 1.
***Eze. 29:17 sets the date, "in the first month, in the first day of the month" (Nisan 1). Then verse 21 says, "In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Word, the Logos) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

I'm sorry that I did not make this clear enough. There are two comings of Christ, called the first and second comings or advents. These are two times that he physically is on the Earth and can be seen by mankind. Neither has anything to do with either the Pre-Trib Rapture or the Pre-Wrath Rapture, when the saints rise up to meet Christ in the air.

The FIRST ADVENT was when Jesus was born. I think that took place on Tishri 1 in BC 5. That was when he came as the "former rain" comes to Israel--Tishri 1, the first day of the Jewish Civil Calendar. This is the Jewish New Year that comes in our September or early October.

The SECOND ADVENT will be as Zech. 14:4 says: "his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." This has not happened yet. According to Eze. 29:17,21 and Hos. 6:3, his Second Advent will be on Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year. Nisan starts in our March or April.

At the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE, THE FIRST TRUMP OF GOD, Jesus comes for the Bride of Christ. His feet do not touch Earth. The wise Philadelphian virgins (Mt. 25:1f; Rev. 3:7-13) rise to meet him in the clouds. 1Th 4:14-17 says, "if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (he comes in the air this time) shall not prevent (Old English for preceed) them which are asleep (these are the dead in Christ). For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

At the PRE-WRATH RAPTURE, THE LAST TRUMP OF GOD, in Rev. 7, we see Christ, the Lamb of God, in Heaven. Before him "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." Verse 14 tells us who this great throng is. It says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (i.e., confessed their sins, as in I John 1:9)."

1Co 15:51-53 describes the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

On the timeline, the First Advent is past. The Pre-Trib Rapture is the next scheduled event. The Pre-Wrath Rapture will probably happen on Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), the Day of God's Wrath. Seven months after God's Wrath (Eze. 39:12,13) Christ will return to Earth on Nisan 1, probably in 5768, on our April 6, 2008. This is the Second Advent. Because there are 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) instead of the usual 6 between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1, we know that year is a Jewish Leap Year with the 13th month, Adar II. The year 5768 is a Leap Year. Agape

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Re: Wall in Israel
in procon 916, you stated "maybe an electrified chain link fence is not a wall." I saw the wall that is being constructed in Israel, on the news last night. It is not an electrified chain link fence; it is a massive concrete wall, I would estimate around 10 to 12 feet high. It sure merits being called a wall. See if you can catch the pictures of it on TV. All the best to you and Ed. These days are pulsing with expectation of the soon appearing of our Lord Jesus, and His command to us to meet Him in the air. Much love

My reply

I saw the fence picture on the Internet. I see so little TV, mainly ice skating and Lakers, Dodgers, or Angels ball games, I haven't been able to see a picture of a wall, but from what news I have read on the net, there seem to be some sections of wall and other sections of electronic fence.
Hoping to see you here, there, or in the air. Agape

Incoming email

I find my self coming to your site every day look over your writings and checking scriptures!

I found the Be the Bride v.3 book somewhere on your site the other day! I read it and really got a lot out of it. I would like to ask for your insight.

Daniel stated that, The Bride would be a number around 199 million. This would be a small number looking at the number of people on the earth right now being 6 billion, and that is not counting people that have passed on!

So my questions are;
What about our kids?
age of Accountability?

If there is a three year old and the parents are raptured, that child would be left with the state and would get the mark put on him if they had anything to do with it!

My reply

I don't know about the exact number that will be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, but the Bride of Christ can often be recognized because they are numbered. In the parable of the ten virgins, there is an even split, half and half. Only the 144,000 can be numbered at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. The great multitude can't be numbered (Rev. 7:9,14).

My opinion is that all children under 13, the Jewish age of accountability, will be caught up in the 1st Rapture with their believing parent/parents. Those whose unbelieving parents stay here would stay here too. However, at the 2nd Rapture, all children will be caught up, regardless of parent's beliefs. Agape

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Israeli Medical Team Cure Bubble Baby
Child Born Without Immune System Completely Healthy
The miracle cure was engineered at Hadassah-University Hospital in Jerusalem's Ein Kerem using a genetic engineering technique. How they did it is the subject of today's issue of the prestigious journal 'Science'....

But the cure wasn't discovered by a Jew to cure Jews. The little girl doctors worked so hard to give a normal life was a little Arab girl.

Imagine an Arab controlled hospital developing a life saving technique to cure a Jew.

I can't either. Jack Kinsella

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Subject: rood (again)
Thanks Marilyn...my you got a reply back to me fast. I had forgotten that I stumbled onto Rood"s website before, but havent checked it out for a while, I think because he had some other stuff on there that seemed off kilter. But, I look for nuggets. I believe he has a book out about how deceived many of us are to be looking for the "Blessed Hope" that it 'ain't' gonna happen. I'm just curious enough to read it since some good friends of mine did and now are not 'pre-trib' anymore. I feel disappointed as I look to them for spiritual guidance quite a bit. Have you read it? It's called The Mystery of Iniquity. I don't think I have time to order, receive it and read it. :) I pray for you and your ministry. Every time you post a prayer request, I do so right away since I don't know the people and tend to forget. Do you have any idea how many people read your site on a regular basis? I believe God has blessed and multiplied your ministry to His use and Glory. Agape

My reply

No, I haven't read that book. Also, I don't know how many read my site regularly.

Rabbi Rood seems like some other Messianic Jews I know of, the Nazarines. They don't think there will be a Rapture. Essentially, it seems that they keep all the Law and add Yeshua. We have to try to look through their eyes. Just think of how many Old Testament promises there are that deal with the Jews on Earth. They will all come true too.

With that background, it would be so easy to not let Heb. 11: 15,16's real meaning soak in. Verses 1-7 mention Abel (actually alive, for "he being dead yet speaketh," i.e., from the first, there was no such thing as soul sleep) Enoch (who "was translated that he should not see death," i.e., he established the reality of the Rapture very early, Gen. 5:24) and Noah (who was lifted up by water, a symbol of the Holy Spirit).

Verses 8-16 talk about Abraham, Sarah and their offspring. Then Heb. 11:13-16 says, "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned (i.e., to Earth). BUT NOW THEY DESIRE A BETTER COUNTRY, THAT IS, AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (New Jerusalem). Agape

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Re: Seems to be a Very Biblically grounded Study site

As much as I have seen and experienced, I believe that this a Site where we can safely study about the next great event for the Church,,,,,,,The rapture. Which I as a 69 yr old retired Pastor can certainly appreciate, I have been in the Word for the past 47 yrs and everything my 1st pastor ever spoke of as the Preminllenial Return of Jesus and the rapture is a all comsuming thirst for the author of this site Mrs Agee. I believe I will enjoy it very much as I reconfirm all that I understand about the end times.

PS: if you have a subscription list I would love to be on it. Thank you

My reply

Thanks for all those kind words. Sorry, I don't have a subscription list. It is all I can do to answer e-mail and post it on my Pro and Cons. Like you, I have been studying the Bible as hard and deep as I can go for over 40 years. I'm 73 now. I am watching, studying, writing and posting with most of my available time. I mean to be an overcomer no matter how long it takes. With the seemingly impossible situation in Israel, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ for the Bride of Christ seems like it can't be very far away.

I think that various people are each given insight on different things. We can all profit by putting our heads together. I would appreciate your input.

Last night, I was reading the July "Midnight Call" and found something interesting that I haven't run across before. The article on pages 30-32, "Is Masonry Compatible With Christianity?" by Thomas Key, says, "In the secret Lodge document, The Mystic Shrine: An Illustrated Ritual of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the Shrine, 1975 edition, pages 20-22, the Shriners' blood oath is acceptance of Allah as God. If you study Allah, you will see that Allah is not another name for the God of the Bible, but originated as one of the many pagan gods." For me, I associate the name Allah with the Moon god. I think that is why the Muslims use the crescent Moon symbol.

Continuing, it says, "As though God were not capable of resurrecting His own Name that got lost, it is supposedly revealed during the ritual of the Royal Arch Degree. The Masonic deity is Jahbulon. 'Jah' is a shortened form of Jehovah or Yahweh. 'Bul' is Baal. 'On' is the same as Osiris" (emphasis is mine).

Later in the same paragraph, it mentions, "Jabulon, the sacred Masonic name of the Trinity." No wonder they swear members to secrecy. This belief can't bear the light of the day. Mat 28:19 gives us the true Trinity. It says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Agape

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