Pro and Con 930

Posted 7-21-02

THE WAILING WALL

http://www.rickriordan.com/western_wall.htm
...THE JEWS WORSHIP AT THE WESTERN WALL, AND BELIEVE THAT THE PRESENCE OF GOD NEVER LEAVES IT....

IN THIS PICTURE, THE FACE ON THE WALL ABOVE AND A LITTLE TO THE LEFT OF THE HEAD OF THE MAN IN THE FOREGROUND SEEMS TO HAVE MIRACULOUSLY TURNED TOWARD THE CAMERA

SALVATION/YESHUA

I so liked Jim's insight into salvation/Yeshua of Ps. 91:16 that I decided to use e-Sword's King James Concordance to locate other references to H#3444. As you know, one can search thru these quickly by just touching the verses with the cursor in e-Sword.

H3444 yeshu^a^h
Total KJV Occurrences: 78

salvation, 65
Gen_49:18, Exo_14:13, Exo_15:2, Deu_32:15, 1Sa_2:1, 1Sa_14:45, 2Sa_22:51, 1Ch_16:23, 2Ch_20:17, Job_13:16, Psa_3:8, Psa_9:14, Psa_13:5, Psa_14:7, Psa_20:5, Psa_21:1, Psa_21:5, Psa_35:3, Psa_35:9, Psa_53:6, Psa_62:1-2 (2), Psa_62:6, Psa_68:19, Psa_69:29, Psa_70:4, Psa_74:12, Psa_78:22, Psa_88:1, Psa_89:26, Psa_91:16, Psa_106:2-4 (4), Psa_118:13-15 (3), Psa_118:21, Psa_119:123, Psa_119:155, Psa_119:166, Psa_119:174, Psa_140:7, Psa_149:4, Isa_12:2-3 (3), Isa_25:9, Isa_33:1-2 (2), Isa_49:6 (2), Isa_49:8, Isa_51:6, Isa_51:8, Isa_52:7, Isa_52:10, Isa_56:1, Isa_59:11, Isa_60:17-18 (2), Isa_62:1, Jon_2:9, Hab_3:8

health, 3
Psa_42:11, Psa_43:5, Psa_67:2

help, 3
2Sa_10:11, Psa_3:2, Psa_42:5

deliverance, 2
Psa_18:50, Isa_26:18

saving, 2
Psa_28:8, Psa_67:2

deliverances, 1
Psa_44:4

save, 1
Psa_80:2

welfare, 1
Job_30:15

just looking at a few of these verses I liked...

"I have waited for thy salvation (H3444), O LORD" (YHVH), Gen. 49:18.

"Thou art my King, O God: command deliverances (H3444) for Jacob," Ps. 44:4.

"Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation (H3444) shall be forever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished," Isa. 51:6.

"For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation (H3444) thereof as a lamp that burneth," Isa. 62:1.

"I have longed for thy salvation (H3444), O LORD; and thy law is my delight," Ps. 119:174.

"Behold, God is my salvation (H3444); I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation (H3444)," Isa. 12:2.

"LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation (H3444), and done thy commandments," Ps. 119:166.

"Remember me, O LORD, with the favor that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation" (H3444), Ps. 106:4.

Keeping the word of His patience (hupomone)

My reply

Thank you so much....

> > "Behold, God is my salvation (H3444); I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation (H3444)," Isa. 12:2.

Wow! "he also is become my salvation (Strong's Yshuw'ah, Young's Yeshuah)" That is clear. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19).

Please tell me how to do the kind of a search you did. Don't assume that I know how to do everything any of my programs will do. I know so little of what they are really capable of it's pitiful. Agape

MANY VERSES SUGGEST THAT THE PROMINENT FACE ON THE WAILING WALL REPRESENTS YESHUA, WHO IS CALLED OUR ROCK

In these verses, Strong's 3444 Yshuw'ah, Young's Yeshuah, or Young's Yesha appear. Yeshua is our "rock." My search led me from Yeshuah and Yesha in the Old Testament directly to Yeshua/Christ in the New Testament. He is God, our Rock.

Isa 26:1: "In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation (Yshuw'ah, or YESHUAH WILL GOD APPOINT FOR WALLS and bulwarks."

Isa 52:7,10: "How beautiful upon the mountains (nations) are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (Strong's Yshuw'ah; Young's Yeshuah); that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!...The LORD hath made bare his holy arm (Yeshua, Isa. 53) in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation (Yeshuah) of our God."

Ex 15:2,3: "The LORD (YHVH) is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation (Yeshuah): he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. The LORD is a man of war: the LORD (YHVH) is his name."

Ex 14:13: "Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation (Yeshuah) of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever."

De 32:15: "Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation (Yeshuah)."

Psa 20:5: "We will rejoice in thy salvation (Yeshuah), and in the name of our God."

Psa 35:9: "my soul shall be joyful in the LORD (YHVH): it shall rejoice in his salvation (Yeshuah)."

Psa. 42:5: "hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help (Yeshuah) of his countenance."

Psa 53:6: "Oh that the salvation (Yeshuah) of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad."

Psa 62:1,2: "Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation (Yeshuah). He only is my rock and my salvation (Yeshuah) will God appoint for WALLS and bulwarks."

Psa 62:5,6: "My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation (Yeshuah): he is my defence; I shall not be moved."

Psa 67:1-4: "God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us; Selah (pause and think of that) That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health (Yeshuah) among all nations. Let the people praise thee, O God; let all the people praise thee. O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah."

Psa 69:29,30: "I am poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation (Yeshuah), O God, set me up on high (at the Rapture). I will praise the name of God with a song (sung after the Rapture, Rev. 5:9), and will magnify him with thanksgiving."

Psa 78:21,22: "The LORD heard this, and was wroth: so a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel; Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation (Yeshuah)."

Psa 89:26-29; 35-37: "He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation (Yeshuah). Also I will make him (Yeshua) my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven (1000 years)....I will not lie unto David. His seed (Yeshua) shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me (on Saturn). It shall be established for ever as the moon (a sphere in this Sun's solar system), and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah (pause and think of that)."

Psa 118:14-22: "The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation (Yeshuah). The voice of rejoicing and salvation (Yeshuah) is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD (Yeshua, Isa. 40.10; 53:1) doeth valiantly....Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD: This gate of the LORD (Heaven's door, Rev. 3:8; 4:1), into which the righteous shall enter (at the Rapture, Rev. 4:1). I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation (Yeshuah). The stone which the builders refused (Yeshua) is become the head stone of the corner" (i.e., Earth, represented by the curtain that folded over the back corner of the Tabernacle).

Isa 49:8: "Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation (Yeshuah, i.e., the Day of God that begins the millennial Day of the Lord; all Israel will be saved that day, Isa. 66:8) have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages."

Isa 60:18: "Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy WALLS Salvation (Yeshuah), and thy gates Praise."

Jon 2:9: "I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation (Yeshuah) is of the LORD."

Hab 3:8: "Was the LORD displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation (Yeshuah)?"

URL from 5 Doves site: MOSHIACH, THE JEWISH CONCEPT OF THE MESSIAH

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/LazerA/moshiach.htm

...What Moshiach Is Not

There are many false ideas about Moshiach in the world. Many of these ideas have been spread by Christianity. It is therefore important to clarify some of these points: Moshiach will be a normal human being born from human parents. He will not be a god, or a "son of god".

Moshiach will be mortal. He will not live forever. When he dies he will be succeeded by his son, like any normal king.

Moshiach will not atone for our sins. Every person must atone for his own sins; no one else can do it for you.

Moshiach will not change the laws of the Torah in any way. If he attempts to do so then we know that he is a false messiah.

All of these issues point to a fundamental belief of Judaism. We must recognize that the Moshiach is only a person who is a messenger from HaShem. He is not our actual redeemer, for redemption only comes from HaShem....It is important that we always focus on HaShem as our savior, and not on any human being....

MY COMMENTS

> > Moshiach will be a normal human being born from human parents. He will not be a god, or a "son of god".

Psa 78:21,22: "The LORD heard this, and was wroth: so a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel; Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation (Yeshuah)."

Pro 30:4 asks, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name (YHVH), and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Amo 4:13 says, "he that formeth the mountains, and createth the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh the morning darkness, and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, The LORD (YHVH), The God of hosts, is his name."

> > Moshiach will not atone for our sins. Every person must atone for his own sins

Unfortunately, the idea of atoning for their own sins is impossible. Without a Redeemer, they are on a slick slide to hell. Isa 64:6 says, "we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

> > Moshiach is only a person who is a messenger from HaShem. He is not our actual redeemer

Isa. 44:6 disagrees. It says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first (YHVH King of Israel), and I am the last (YHVH of hosts, the redeemer); and beside me there is no God."

YHVH of Hosts is the Redeemer, and he is God.

John 1:1-3,14 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)."

Psa 62:1,2: "Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation (Yeshuah). He only is my rock and my salvation (Yeshuah)."

Psa 62:5,6: "My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation (Yeshuah): he is my defence; I shall not be moved."

Psa 89:26-29; 35-37: "He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, AND the rock of my salvation (Yeshuah). Also I will make him (Yeshua) my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

Psa 118:14-22: "The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation (Yeshuah). The voice of rejoicing and salvation (Yeshuah) is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD (Yeshua, Isa. 40.10; 53:1) doeth valiantly....Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD: This gate of the LORD (Heaven's door, Rev. 3:8; 4:1), into which the righteous shall enter (at the Rapture, Rev. 4:1). I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation (Yeshuah). The stone which the builders refused (Yeshua) is become the head stone of the corner" (i.e., Earth, represented by the curtain that folded over the back corner of the Tabernacle).

Isa 60:18: "Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation (Yeshuah), and thy gates Praise."

The face on the stones of the wailing wall sure seems to represent Yeshua, our Rock, the Son of God, our Redeemer.

Jonah 2:9: "Salvation (Yeshuah) is of the LORD (YHVH)."

Deu 32:3,4: "our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect."

Deu 32:18: "Of the Rock< that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee."

1Sa 2:2: "There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God."

2Sa 22:3: "who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?"

2Sa 22:47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation (Yesha).

Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation (Yesha)."

Psa 18:31: "who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?"

Psa 18:46: "The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation (Yesha) be exalted."

Psa 42:9: "I will say unto God my rock."

Psa 78:35: "they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God (the Almighty, Rev. 1:8; Isa. 9:6) their redeemer."

Psa 89:26: "He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation (Yeshuah)."

Psa 92:15: "the LORD is upright: he is my rock."

Psa 95:1: "come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation (Yesha)."

Isa 17:10: "Because thou hast forgotten the God of thy salvation (Yesha), and hast not been mindful of the rock of thy strength, therefore shalt thou plant pleasant plants, and shalt set it with strange slips."

1Co 10:4: "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

ARABICNEWS.COM'S VIEWPOINT

EXPERTS QUELL JERUSALEM WALL EXCITEMENT, SAY STAIN IS PLANT RESIN http://www.arabia.com/afp/news/mideast/article/english/0,10846,246399,00.html
7-15-02 A small drip on a stone of Jerusalem's Wailing Wall seen by religious Jews as a sign the Messiah was coming is nothing more than plant resin.

AL-HARAM AL-SHARIF'S WESTERN WALL IS NOT THE WAILING

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/010305/2001030524.html
3-5-01 An Egyptian study uncovered that the western wall of A1-Haram Al-Sharif is the Buraq Wall, not the Wailing as the Jews allege to justify establishment of their state in Palestine.

Contained in a book issued recently by the Ain Shams University's Middle East Research Center, the study says 95% of Jews are not Israelites but rather foreigners of mixed races...

It is illogical that there are any antiquities belonging to Prophets beneath Al-Aqsa Mosque, said the study, noting that Al Aqsa Mosque was built 2,000 years before Prophet Solomon and remained so until this day.

My note

Their timing is a little off. Solomon began to reign in BC 940 (3103 AH). The temple was begun in BC 936 (3107 AH). Just roughing this out, if we subtract 2000 years, we get 1107 AH. Noah was born in 1056 AH. The Flood took place when Noah was 600 (1656 AH). Therefore, what the above would have us believe is that Al-Aqsa Mosque was built before Noah's Flood. If so, the builders and worshipers all died in the Flood. Another thing, Abraham was born 2 years before Noah died. Ishmael's line had not yet begun. The source below sounds more reasonable, saying that the Al-Aqsa Mosque "was built over the original Temple of Solomon."

MORE ABOUT EL-AQSA MOSQUE FROM THE INTERNET

Palestine
Al-Qouds Flash Program
What is the truth?
http://www.palestinehistory.com/flash.htm
They said that the Al-Aqsa Mosque was BUILT BY ADAM and later completed by Prophets Solomon and David (Suleimon and Dahood). Never has it been stated in any reference material that Solomon or David had anything to do with Al-Aqsa Mosque. They had built a temple somewhere in Al-Qouds but it is not at all this building. It is well known that Khalifa Omar was the one who rebuilt the Mosque (after opening the City of Jerusalem in the year 638).

JERUSALEM SYNDROME - AL-AQSA MOSQUE

http://www.jerusalemsyndrome.com/jsaqsa.htm
Al-Aqsa Mosque...built between 705 and 715 at the southern extremity of the Haram al-Sharif, (Temple Mount...)...The building was destroyed several times by earthquakes and now has only a few elements of its original Umayyad structure. The main part of the present building is the work of the Fatimid caliph of Egypt, Al-Zahir, who restored the mosque in 1035....

Since it was built over the original Temple of Solomon, the al-Aqsa Mosque is also a Christian holy site.

EL-AKSA MOSQUE

http://jeru.huji.ac.il/ee22.htm
Built by the Caliph al-Walid (r. 705-715), of the Umayyad dynasty.

THE AL AQSA MOSQUE, JERUSALEM

islamicity.com/Culture/MOSQUES/Jerusalem/TMp82b.htm
The Al Aqsa Mosque...Originally built in 715, the mosque was reconstructed and enlarged at least six times....

AL-AQSA MOSQUE/TEMPLE OF SOLOMON

http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nes266/page10.htm
The al-Aqsa mosque was built by the Ummayyids in the late 7th century AD, soon after the Dome of the Rock was completed...

FROM 5 DOVES SITE

Reply to Day of the Lord - following Jim's & Tex's Posts - By Sherry Vance

Hi: My comments are marked ***

> > The Rapture and the covenant with the antichrist take place IN THE DAY OF THE LORD.

***The millennial Day of the Lord can't start until AFTER ELIJAH COMES. Mal 4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD."

***Also, Acts 2:20 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE that great and notable day of the Lord (kurios) come."

***Also, 2Pe 3:10 says that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." These things do not take place at the Pre-Trib Rapture.

> > Here's proof: Rev. 1:10, John says "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet…" This is NOT the Rapture YET. John was on Patmos and was in the Holy Spirit receiving a revelation and vision.

***The Revelation of Jesus Christ is when we see him revealed at the Rapture. The book is written from the vantage point of when the Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signs off with "Surely I come quickly." He comes quickly at the Rapture. Every eye will see him at the Second Advent.

***Just as our movies start with a Preview, Rev. 1:4-18 is the Preview of the Rapture that will actually take place in its proper sequence in Rev. 4:1. In Rev. 1:13-16, John sees Christ as we will see him right after the Rapture. The 7 candlesticks (7 churches) are already around Christ in Heaven. The 7 star achievers are already in Heaven too. They are still in Christ's hand, because he has just snatched them up.

> > WHEN? Look close - THE LORD'S DAY. And he HEARD a voice AS OF A TRUMPET! When is the most PROMINENT TIME that trumpets are blown - or what do you think of when you hear that trumpets are being blown? FEAST OF TRUMPETS OF COURSE! He heard a voice AS OF A TRUMPET! WHEN? ON THE LORD'S DAY! When would this have been if we are comparing it to NOW? IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS 2000, THE END OF 6 DAYS AND START OF THE 7TH DAY - WHICH IS NONE OTHER THAN THE DAY OF THE LORD!

***The 1st trumpet of God in the Bible was at Sinai on Pentecost. A trumpet is blown on all feasts and fasts and on the 1st day of each month. The Day of the LORD didn't start in 2000, because Elijah has not yet come. > > Now follow > after John is told what he sees, write in a book and send it to the 7 churches, he says "I TURNED TO SEE THE VOICE THAT SPAKE WITH ME…" He had only HEARD, not SEEN the Lord yet. Instead what he SAW was the 7 candlesticks - or the CHURCHES!

***John described how Christ looked. Therefore, he saw Christ with the 7 churches around him.

> > Comparing that to right NOW - we are 1 yr. and 10 months into the DAY OF THE LORD. The Rapture will happen in THE DAY OF THE LORD.

***I don't think we are in the Day of the Lord now, and I don't think the Pre-Trib Rapture will take place in the millennial Day of the LORD (kurios). However, the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place on the Day of God that is the 1st day of the millennial Day of the LORD.

> > Proof > chapters 2 & 3 are the letters to the churches calling them to repentance & readiness……IT IS IN CHAPTER 4, after the call to repentance, that John says he looked and A DOOR WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN AND THE FIRST VOICE WHICH HE HEARD WAS AS IT WERE OF A TRUMPET (there is our trumpet call and shout) for the voice says COME UP HITHER! It happens after the 6 days are ended, when the 7th day has begun, which is the DAY OF THE LORD - exactly as John shows that he was ALREADY IN THE DAY OF THE LORD EVEN BEFORE THE RAPTURE HAS HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!

***The 2nd Rapture takes place on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the LORD. The Pre-Trib Rapture cannot take place on the day of the 2nd Rapture, or on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

***In Rev. 1:10, John said, "I was (ginomai, caused to become, i.e., I became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (kurioke hemera, day that belongs to the supreme in authority, God, Lord, Master, Sir; i.e., the day that belongs to the first and last, 'the Almighty,' v. 8), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet." ***1Co 5:5 shows us how to take Rev. 1:10. This day we are considering is "THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS." It says, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS." This day is the day of the Rapture. 2Co 1:14 calls the Rapture "THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS." It says, "we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in "THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS."

***In Rev. 1:13, we find find a clue that there is another name for the days of the 2 Raptures, the days of "the Son of man." This is the 1st Rapture, and Christ is "like unto THE SON OF MAN."

***Luke 17:22-30 shows us that the 1st Day of the Son of Man is also as the days of Noah, when water fell. It says, "The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE of the (TWO) DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN, and ye shall not see it (THE 1ST DAY OF THE SON OF MAN). And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also THE SON OF MAN BE IN HIS DAY. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in THE DAYS (TWO) OF THE SON OF MAN (rain, i.e., the Spirit of Christ, will fall).... Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot...the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in THE DAY WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED ('THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN' will be seen in the sky (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f) at the 2nd Rapture." At that time, RAIN WILL FALL. FIRE AND BRIMSTONE ALSO WILL FALL."

***On the day of the 2nd Rapture, I think rain, fire and brimstone will fall on Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768), 14 years (7 good and 7 bad) after the Oslo Accords were signed on Sept. 13, 1993.

***The 1st Intifada started after the Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754. Seven years later, the 2nd Intifada was announced on Sept. 29, 2000. At 6 PM on the 29th, Tishri 1 began.

***Below is a picture taken Sept. 13, 2001, while the fires were still burning at the World Trade Center disaster of Sept. 11, 2001. There was an Act of God, a terrible thunderstorm, unleashing its fury (as I think God will unleash his fury on Sept. 13, 2007) on the disaster area. The rain was like a cloudburst and still the fire burned. It took about 7 months before all the fire was extinguished. From Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768) to Apr. 6, 2008 (Nisan 1, the1st day of the Regnal Year, and probably the 2nd Advent) will be 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13). This is possible, because 5768 is a Jewish Leap Year with a 13th month, Adar II, added.

> > ...the fact is, we see not just the individual letters going to each individual church, but ALL of the letters IN A BOOK being sent to ALL of the churches. This was done according to the Lord's design because each church had within it, members that would fit in other of the churches. there might be some Phildelphians in Smyrna or some Thyatirians in Pergamos, etc.) He covered all bases!

> > Now follow > John was told to write (verses 10-11) what he would see and send it to the churches - verse 12 says, "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me…." LOOK! John did not see who was talking to him yet - he HEARD first! Then he TURNED TO SEE who spoke to him……and what did he see? He saw "seven golden candlesticks." THE 7 GOLDEN CANDLESTICKS ARE THE CHURCHES!

> > And in the MIDST of the 7 candlesticks (the churches) stood the Son of Man. I always understood it was "Jesus", but did you ever consider why it doesn't say "Son of God" instead? It's because the Son of God could not die - but the Son of Man (Yeshua the Messiah) DID DIE - AND HE DIED FOR THOSE CHURCHES!

***I think it says, "the Son of Man," because the Pre-Wrath Rapture, a Day of the Son of Man, takes place that day.

Anyway, in the following verses, 13-16, the description of Jesus is that of the glorified Son of God - his appearance is that of a High Priest, a Judge….and He is there in the midst of the churches to JUDGE them! In chapters 2 & 3 He does just that. HE is calling them to repentance just BEFORE the Rapture!

***I agree.

> > THIS IS WHERE WE ARE AT RIGHT NOW ON GOD'S TIMELINE! This is our last call to repentance folks! We are already right now, (in fact we are 1 year and 10 months INTO TO IT) in THE DAY OF THE LORD and after this last call to repentance, we are going to be called UP HITHER!

***We can't be 1 yr. and 10 mo. into the millennial Day of the Lord. It starts with the Day of God's Wrath.

> > Remember, at this point, John has NOT been "raptured" - he is in the Spirit (in the Holy Spirit, being shown these things in order to record them) and he is in the Spirit ON THE LORD'S DAY! YES, we ARE IN THE LORD'S DAY RIGHT NOW - it began at FOT 2000, at the end of the 6 days and the 7th day began!

***I think the millennial Day of the Lord will start on the Day of God's Wrath, Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768).

We are right now at that time where "John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day"! And the warnings to the churches and the call to repentance is NOW!

***I agree with the warnings to the churches to repent. I don't think it is the millennial Day of the Lord, but the Day of the Son of Man (Jesus Christ) that preceeds the 70th week of Daniel 9:27. It begins when the Beast rides forth on a white horse as a prince of peace (Rev. 6:2). I think that 70th week of years will end on Sept. 13, 2007. The last half of it is to be shortened (Mt. 24:21,22). Agape

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