Pro and Con 933

Posted 7-30-02

Asteroid to miss - this time around

by David Whitehouse
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2158898.stm

SURPRISE BREAKUP OF COMET 57P; THE NEAR-EARTH OBJECT BROKE INTO AT LEAST 19 PIECES

http://www.upway.com/cgi-bin/readnews.cgi?day=02_07_26&item=#1027687997

Jul 26,2002...They're speculating that comet 57P suffered a significant catastrophe in the recent past, "violent enough to break off many pieces of its nucleus."...

The string of pearls is about 620,000 miles (1 million kilometers) long....

FROM 5 DOVES SITE

http://www.fivedoves.com/latterdayletters/showletter.php?id=3890
"Some questions on the antichrist for Marilyn Agee"

Mabel wrote:
You teach that the Jews will rebuild a third temple that will be desecrated by the antichrist during the trib. in reference to Daniel 9:26-27.

Daniel 9:25 "...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the CITY and the SANCTUARY; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

My question is: If this refers to the antichrist, then does that mean he will make both JERUSALEM and the third temple desolate again?? In Him

My reply

I think you meant verse 26. It starts in the past and skips to the future. Below is the way I see Dan. 9:24-27.

Dan 9:24: "Seventy weeks (shavuim, sevens, septets, i.e., 70 x 7 = 490 years) are determined upon thy people (Israelites) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy" (Christ). All these things finally fulfilled at, or shortly thereafter, the Second Advent. Armageddon follows Christ's return.

Dan 9:25: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment (BC 454) to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (Yeshua/Jesus) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks (483 years): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

The commandment went forth in the 1st year of Cyrus. Isa. 44:26-28 says of the Lord, he "saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof: That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers: That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."

In his "Romance of Bible Chronology," Martin Anstey explained how he found an 82-year mistake in the accepted chronology of the Persian Kings. BC 536 - 82 = BC 454.

483 - 454 + 1 (no zero yr) = 30 AD, the Crucifixion.

Dan 9:26: "And after threescore and two weeks (49 + 434 = 483 years; i.e., in 30 AD) shall Messiah (Jesus Christ) be cut off (karath, killed), but not for himself (for us): and the people (the Romans) of the prince that shall come (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) shall destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (the temple);

"and THE END thereof shall be with a flood (when the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea at noon, on the Day of God's Wrath, Zeph. 2:4,5), and unto THE END of the war (Armageddon) desolations are determined."

Dan 9:27: "And he (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) shall confirm (gabar, strengthen) the covenant (probably the Oslo Accords) with many (probably includes the UN) for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week (after 1260 days of the ministry of the 2 witnesses, Rev. 11:3) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (when he sits in the temple 'shewing himself that he is God,' II Thess. 2:4, and kills the 2 witnesses, Rev. 11:7), and for the overspreading of abominations (idols, Rev. 13:14) he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (end of Armageddon), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (lit., desolator)." Satan will be chained (Rev. 20:1-3), and the Beast and False Prophet cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 19:20).

When Gog's army attacks Israel, the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 will cause a worldwide earthquake. Every wall will fall (Eze. 38:20). The mountain-sized asteroid will fall in the Mediterranean Sea, causing a tsunami. Eze. 38:22,23 says, "I will plead (shaphat, judge [at the Judgment Seat of Christ] and pronounce sentence) against him (Gog) with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing (shataph, gushing) rain (geshem, shower, i.e., a tsunami), and great hailstones (hail of 'eben,' rocks), fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes (the Sign of the Son of Man will be seen in the sky, Mt. 24:31; Rev. 6:14f) of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Zech. 13:8,9 says of this time, "it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God" (the nation born in a day, Isa. 66:8).

> > If this refers to the antichrist, then does that mean he will make both JERUSALEM and the third temple desolate again??

Because of the Satan-possessed False Prophet, the final Antichrist's wickedness, woe and the Sword of the Lord, the asteroid impacts, will devastate Earth. Civilization as we know it will be destroyed. Since every wall will fall, Jerusalem will be in shambles.

Rev. 16:17-20 says, "the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders (the noise heard around the world, Jer. 50:46), and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Seven Jewish months later (on Nisan 1 [Eze. 29:17,19; Hos. 6:3], beginning of the Regnal and Sacred Year), Christ will return. Zech. 14:4 tells us what will happen then. The mount of Olives "shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley, and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." That is another earthquake that Jerusalem will suffer. I have a feeling that Christ will wipe it all clean and then build a new Jerusalem on Earth as he has built New Jerusalem in Heaven. Agape

Incoming email

From: Rich Pope
Marilyn...Also, for all of those Christians who pray for me that I will see the light. You know what I pray each night?

1. For the Peace of Yisrael.
2. For the destruction of those who hate the Jews.
3. For the destruction of those Christians who preach Jesus to the Jews in order to steal them away from the true faith Hashem gave at Sinai. Rich

My reply

You wrote, wondering why I didn't answer your e-mail and why I didn't post your viewpoint. I meant to quit when you let me know that you were praying "For the destruction of those Christians who preach Jesus to the Jews."

That is so like what the Jewish Saul (meaning asked for, death) wanted before the Lord Jesus Christ met him on the road to Damascus and, along with turning his life around 180 degrees, made him a strong Christian believer and gave him the new name of Paul (little), for he was no longer asking for death as you are.

We are nearing the time Zech. 13:6-14:3 talks about. When God has given us a chance to get out of here before civilization as we know it is destroyed, I'd hate to see you going through these days on Earth. When Gog's army attacks Israel, the Lord GOD will say, "my fury shall come up in my face" (Eze. 38:18). That will be the Day of God's Wrath.

Before I quote Zechariah, you need to understand who the LORD OF HOSTS is. Isa. 44:6 tells you plainly. It says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first (YHVH the King of Israel), AND I am the last (YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, i.e., the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ); and beside me there is no God." II Cor. 5:19 says, "God (i.e., YHVH) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." Thus the same YHVH is LORD of the Old Testament and YHVH Lord of the New Testament.

Zech. 13:6-14:3 says, "And one shall say unto him (THE LORD OF HOSTS, the Redeemer, i.e., Jesus Christ), What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded (in 30 AD) in the house of my friends. Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith THE LORD OF HOSTS (the Redeemer, i.e., Jesus Christ): smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle ('as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword,' Jos 10:11). And his (the Redeemer, the LORD of hosts, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ's) feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

In that day, you will know who the LORD of hosts is. Will you be among the saved remnant? or among those that die lost?

In Eze 38:22,23, the YHVH says, "I will plead against him (Gog) with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain (the asteroid impacts the Mediterranean Sea), and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations (the Sign of the Son of Man will be seen in the sky, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f), and they shall know that I am the LORD (YHVH)."

Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel, fulfilled in 1948); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD (YHVH), all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (i.e., caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture) in the day of the LORD'S anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."

When the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 hit the Mediterranean and Babylon, the Earth will be turned upside down. Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

Rev 16:17-19 says, "the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake (the worldwide earthquake of Eze. 38:20), and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

Do you want to be on Earth when this happens? or would you rather be hid in the tabernacle, dwelling place, of the LORD on that day? The Holy of Holies of the Tabernacle and Temple represented Heaven. The way into Heaven is through the veil. That way was not open until the veil was split from the top down on the day of the Crucifixion. The veil represented the LORD of host's flesh. Through his death, the way into Heaven was opened, but to get there, you have to accept him. His resurrection is the proof of who he is.

In the Old Testament, he was the LORD, the Pre-incarnate Christ. In the New Last Will and Testament, put in force by the death of the testator, he is the Incarnate Christ. Isa. 9:6,7 is talking about him. It says, "For unto us a child is born (inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is given (inheriting his deity from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD OF HOSTS will perform this." Shalom and agape

Earlier Incoming E-mail from Rich Pope

Jesus died for my sins?

Christianity teaches that Jesus is the once and for all sacrifice for our sins. God, through the prophet Ezekiel says differently. In the book of Ezekiel God speaks of a future Temple, one which hasn't yet been built. Scripture says, "This is where they will put the especially holy things--the grain offerings, SIN OFFERINGS and guilt offerings; for the place is holy. Eze 42:13. God showed the prophet Ezekiel that sin offerings were still going to be part of the Temple service in the times to come.

Don't I need someone to die for my sins in order to gain forgiveness? That's not what God says. Through the prophet Ezekiel God says, "However, if the wicked person repents of all the sins he committed, keeps my laws and does what is lawful and right; then he will certainly live, he will not die. NONE OF THE TRANSGRESSIONS he has committed will be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done, he will live." Eze. 18:21

Is it even possible for someone to step-in and take my punishment for the sins I myself have committed? Not according to God it isn't. Scripture reads, "The person who sins is the one that will die -- a son is not to bear his father's guilt with him, nor is the father to bear his son's guilt with him..." Eze. 18:20

Arenít we all slaves to sin? Isnít the devilís hold on us too strong for us?
This isnít what God told Cain, who had just committed the grave sin of murdering his brother. God says, "If you do what is right, shouldnít you hold your head high?Ösin is crouching at the door -- it wants you, but you can rule over it." Genesis 4:7.

So what does God expect from me? How am I supposed to live my life in a way that is pleasing to God? God says, "Here is the final conclusion, now that you have heard everything: fear God, and keep his commandments; this is what being human is all about. Ecclesiastes 12:13

That isnít what the New Testament says. Yes it is! The New Testament says, "When we love God, we also do what he commands. For loving God means obeying his commands." I John 5:3 But I thought it was impossible to keep Godís Law. Thatís not what the New Testament says. The New Testament says, "Moreover, His (Godís) commands are not burdensome, because everything which has God as its Father overcomes the world." I John 5:5.

My reply

> > "This is where they will put the especially holy things--the grain offerings, SIN OFFERINGS and guilt offerings; for the place is holy. Eze 42:13. God showed the prophet Ezekiel that sin offerings were still going to be part of the Temple service in the times to come.

After the Second Advent of Christ, mankind will believe in him. How could they not when he walks among them? Mankind will be given different instructions to see if they will obey God or not.

Mankind is being tested during 7 different Dispensations. In each, the instructions given to man to obey are different. God is proving that some will obey and some will not, no matter what the instructions are. During the millennial Day of the LORD, there will still be some that obey and some that disobey. Some of mankind have a very stubborn streak in them. During the 7 Dispensations, God will prove that some men will still fail--even with the perfect King and High Priest--even living in a perfect environment.

Here are the Dispensations

(1) Innocence - 40 yrs - Adam and Eve were told not to eat a certain fruit - they failed their test
(2) Conscience - 1616 yrs - God placed knowledge of right and wrong in the conscience - as a whole mankind failed to obey what they knew to be right
(3) Human Government - 427 yrs - God gave them leaders who made laws showing what was right and wrong - mankind failed again
(4) Promise - 430 yrs - Abraham was given promises; he believed them, but as a whole mankind did not--failed again
(5) Law - 1559 yrs - Moses was given God's laws - not one man was saved by obeying the law--failed again
(6) Grace - probably 1977 yrs, from the Crucifixion to the millennial Day of the LORD - man is to believe in the Messiah - as a whole, mankind will fail this test too
(7) Kingdom - 1000 yrs - the Messiah is King of kings and Lord of lords - will mankind obey God in the flesh?

Is there anything else God could have used to test man's obedience? Only the obedient pass the test. God gave us a manual so we could have a fair chance to pass our test. When we read it carefully, we can see how the test instructions changed from time to time.

You are trying to follow God's instructions given in the Dispensation of the Law. That isn't our test today. The Law wasn't Adam's test. It wasn't Enoch's, Noah's, or even Abraham's, and it isn't yours. The Law was the test from Moses to Jesus Christ, who fulfilled the Law, the only man that was ever able to avoid sinning. That was because he was born of a virgin and therefore did not inherit Adam's sin nature. God was his Father, therefore, he had no sin nature.

Col 2:14 shows one thing that happened at the cross. "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (the Law) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." Eph 2:15 says, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace."

Why was the Law given? to show us what sin is. I John 3:4 says, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

The Dispensation of the Law ended at the cross. It is a good thing. No man was ever saved by trying to keep the Law. Mankind's sin nature works against us. How was man actually saved during the Dispensation of the Law? by believing that the promised Messiah would come. How is that different from today? We are saved by believing that the Messiah did come. They looked forward to the cross. We look backward to the cross.

In 1Co 1:18, Paul said, "the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

In John 15:10, Jesus said, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

There are 2 sets of commandments mentioned, Jesus' commandments and his Father's commandments. What are Jesus' commandments? Verse 12 gives us one. It says, "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." Verse 17 gives it again. Jesus said, "I command you, that ye love one another."

In John 13:34, Jesus said, "A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." In John 14:1, Jesus said, "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In John 10:38, he said, "though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."

2Jo 1:8,9 says, "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."

1Jo 3:23 says, "this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." Shalom and agape

FROM 5 DOVES SITE

http://www.fivedoves.com/latterdayletters/showletter.php?id=3885
Vera
"Re:Agee Re: Day of the Lord - following Jim's & Tex's Posts"
Posted on: 7-22-02

Daniel 7:25 "He will speak against the Most High and OPPRESS HIS SAINTS and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be "handed over to him" for a time, times, and half a time.

Rev. 13:7 "He was given power to make war against the saints and to "conquer them"...." NIV

My question is: If the saints that are left behind are handed over to him to be conquered, then how can there be a second rapture?? In Him, Vera

My reply

You can tell by Rev. 12 that not all the saints will be killed. Those that flee to Petra will be safe. Also, it is only in Judah that the believers are told to flee. Evidently, the Satan-possessed False Prophet will concentrate on killing believers in that area. There will be a great multitude worldwide that will be raptured. Agape

Incoming email

I dont know from were people come up with a pre trib rapture it is not in the bible there is no such thing as a pre trib rapture if there was going to be a pre -trib rapture why does the bible talk so much about the tribulation it is because God wants to warn the church about what is to come. A

My reply

If there was no Pre-Trib Rapture, I would expect to find in the Bible instructions on how believers were to prepare for the Tribulation, and how they were to live through the entire Tribulation. I would expect to see the word ekklesia, called out ones, church, used in the Tribulation passages in Revelation. The reason we don't find the instructions or "ekklesia" in Tribulation times is because at that time, we, the "called out ones" have already been called out.

John is one of the 24 elders (II John 1:1) seen sitting on their thrones in Rev. 4:4. I think the 24 are the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles of Israel. Right after John is caught up to Heaven when Christ says, "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1, we are shown all 24 elders in Heaven. Therefore, the other 23 are caught up with John.

The Old Testament saints can't be made perfect until the New Testament saints are made perfect. Heb 11:39,40 says, "these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." Therefore, not only John is raised up in Rev. 4:1, the patriarchs are raised up at the same time. When the elders are raised up, the "ekklesia" is raised up. The 12 patriarchs are the Representatives of Old Testament Israel. The 12 apostles are the Representatives of the New Testament Body of Christ. When they are raised up, we are raised up.

All the 24 elders are Israelites, yet the saints seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 are "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." When the elders are raised up, we are raised up. The open door is set before the Philadelphians in Rev. 3:8. When John goes through that open door, the rest of the Philadelphians go through that open door.

Who is a Philadelphian? The word means brotherly love, and Jesus didn't find any fault with them. Do you remember the commandment Jesus gave? 1Jo 3:23 says, "this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as he gave us commandment." One of God's attributes is love. If we are filled with the Spirit of God, we are filled with love for God and one another. God's love can flow through us to others.

Believers should use I John 1:9, confess our sins to God, so can clease us of all unrighteousness, to be Philadelphians without any fault found in us. Then the open door is set before us. We are awaiting Christ's trumpet voice saying, "Come up hither."

There are two main trumpet calls for the saints, but the 1st trumpet will sound again just as the 2nd trumpet calls the Tribulation saints. Num 10:1-4 says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, AND FOR THE JOURNEYING OF THE CAMPS. And when they shall blow with them (both), all the assembly (both the Pre-Trib-Rapture saints FROM HEAVEN and the Tribulation saints FROM EARTH) shall assemble themselves to thee at THE DOOR of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, THEN THE PRINCES (THE ELDERS), WHICH ARE THE HEADS OF THE THOUSANDS OF ISRAEL, SHALL GATHER THEMSELVES UNTO THEE."

I Thess. 4:16 is the FIRST TRUMP OF GOD. It calls up the ekklesia, the called out ones, before the Tribulation. Rev. 17:14 says of this group, "he (the Lamb of God, Christ) is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." This is when the 10 kings "have received no kingdom as yet." They are given their kingdom when the Tribulation starts (Rev. 13:1). Therefore those that are called, and chosen, and faithful are with the Lord before the Tribulation.

I Cor. 15:51,52 is when the Tribulation saints are called up at the last trump of God. It says, "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." If there is a last trump, there is a first trump.

Mt. 24:31 is to call to the general assembly in Heaven (Heb. 12:23) all those that were part of the Pre-Trib Rapture. This is the sounding again of the first trumpet on the day the Tribulation saints are called up. It says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER."

Mark 13:27 says the same thing, but adds the last trump that calls the Tribulation saints up from Earth. It says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (Tribulation saints) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN (Pre-Trib saints)." Agape

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