Pro and Con 94, Uploaded 5-6-98

Incoming Email

I thank the Lord and pray for you constantly since discovering your web site in February. It is an absolutely terrific site! I can hardly wait to check it out each day to see if any new pros and cons or new confirming evidence has been posted. I also thank the Lord for the way He has unlocked the scriptures for you and enabled you to explain them so clearly to the rest of us hungry beggars. You say you're not a prophet but I suspect the Lord views you as one by the way He's revealed His Truths to you.

From your own testimony, you've spent over thirty years trying to prove wrong what the Lord revealed to you in 1967. (Note: in 1968.) In this sense you're like C.S. Lewis who spent his life trying to prove that Christianity couldn't possibly be true. He wasn't able to and so far you haven't been able too either.

I'm a 61 year old student of Bible prophesy but I've only really studied the Bible since 1979 when I became a believer. In that short time I've read most every author who's published any book giving an interpretation of the end times. All of them have left me with a sense that something was missing, were too complicated or they contained interpretations of scripture that required a real stretch of the imagination to believe. Many of them seemed a lot more interested in selling books or getting more donations than getting at the truth.

I've just finished reading "Revelations 2000" for the second time and I can't find anything like that in your book. It's clear, concise, logical and easy to understand. The Lord is truly guiding you in His Last Days work. Praise His Name! I've also read most of your pros and cons and explored many of the other links you have on your site. There is nothing that I have had questions about that you haven't been able to answer.

I agree with the sister who said that she belonged to a church where she got mostly disbelieving stares when she talked with people about the May 31 return of our Lord. I get the same reaction, especially from close friends and family. I think it is Satan deceiving even the elect with the lie that it's not possible to know the day or the hour. Otherwise, why is it that so many brothers and sisters who say they love the Lord Jesus have so little interest in trying to learn when He will return. And,if you talk dates with them they really think you're crazy.

Mrs. Agee, thank you for you untiring efforts. There will be a multitude crowded around you in Heaven saying to you, " Thank You! It's because of you that I'm here." And I'll be one of them.

My reply

> I've just finished reading "Revelations 2000" for the second time and
> I can't find anything like that in your book. It's clear, concise,
> logical and easy to understand.

I'm sure glad to know that. I understand what you mean about some books "contained interpretations of scripture that required a real stretch of the imagination to believe." I read a lot of those in my seven-year marathon of reading man's books about the Bible.

> thank you for you untiring efforts. There will be a
> multitude crowded around you in Heaven saying to you, " Thank You!
> It's because of you that I'm here." And I'll be one of them..

Thanks for all the nice things you said, but this is what really makes all the work worth while. God bless you richly. See you in glory.

Incoming Email

I purchased a copy of Revelations 2000 from a local bookstore here in KUala Lumpur,malaysia here and have just finished reading through it. I am stunned and shocked at what I read as I do believe what you wrote seems logical and scriptural. Anyway,rapture or no rapture on May 31, I want to be prepared as the Lord has told us to be. However there is something about New Jerusalem I cannot reconcile...perhaps you can help me. According to your book, New Jerusalem is roughly two thirds the size of the moon and the moon is 2160 miles in Diameter.But according to records I received from the Net,the Diameter of Saturn is 119300km (9.35x that of that of Earth). And the moon is a quarter the size of earth.

Anyway,I must take this opportunity to thank God for causing you to share your thoughts with us. May God bless you and your family. See you in New Jerusalem soon.

My reply

I am glad to hear from another from Malaysia. The first was Mr. Kuek...from ...Kuala Lumpur...The next was a man from Selangor...

Mr. Kuek sent me a book he wrote, "...At The Time Appointed The End Shall Be." He set out to disprove what I said and ended up proving it. The strange thing was that in his letter, he said that God does things in threes and someone else would contact me. Sure enough, within about a week, Bob Ware, from California, USA, contacted me. You can see his Web page at: http://www.sosinet.net/1998markedbygod

Although not identical to Mr. Kuek's work, it is similar in that it is mathematical. Both are very different from mine, but we all come up with the same dates.

> I want to be prepared as the Lord has told us to be.

That is what is the most important thing. We want to be ready so we will be chosen as one of the Bride of Christ. We want to be wise virgins that go with the Bridegroom when he comes. This is the prize Paul was running the race to win.

> However there is something about New Jerusalem I cannot reconcile...perhaps you can
> help me..According to your book, New Jerusalem is roughly two thirds the size of the moon
> and the moon is 2160 miles in Diameter. But according to records I received from the
> Net, the Diameter of Saturn is 119300km (9.35x that of that of Earth).
> And the moon is a quarter the size of earth.

This is not easy to sort out. I wish we has more information about the city "new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God" (Rev. 3:12). Rev. 21:2 says, "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Rev. 21:10 also mentions "the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God."

The Bride of Christ is that group that are taken up in the first Rapture and made "kings and priests unto God and his Father" (Rev. 1:7). They wear crowns (Rev. 3:11; 4:4). Rev. 4:10 says, "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, over) the earth."

Rev. 20:6 says, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Heb. 11:16 says of Abraham and some others, "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

I can't be sure, but maybe, since this city separates from Heaven and descends Earthward, it could be a satellite from which Earth will be ruled during the Millennium. Rev. 21:24 says, "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it, and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

At the Second Advent we will return to Earth with Jesus. He will sit on David's throne and set up the Millennial Government, then put David on his own throne and rule from Heaven. He will be as God and David as a prince under him. Hosea 3:5 says, "Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king." Jer. 30:9 says, "But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." Eze. 34:24 says, "I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them." Eze. 37:23,24 says, "I will be their God. And David my servant shall be king over them."

It seems that for the Millennium, Christ will rule from New Jerusalem, and after that, Earth will be ruled again from Saturn. Psa 103:19 says, "The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all."

Both Saturn and New Jerusalem have a throne. Ezek. 1:26 says." Above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it." This is Saturn for sapphire means Saturn and dear. Ezek. 1:28 adds, "As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about." This is the ring system. The third heaven of II Cor. 12:2 is also Saturn--Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. The morning star of Rev. 2:28 is also Saturn. It can't be Jesus because the church already has Jesus. He says he is the bright and morning star because he lives there.

New Jerusalem also has a throne. Rev. 22:3 says, "the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be (future tense) in it."

Until the beginning of the Millennium, New Jerusalem seems to be a secret place, maybe hidden from our view by the feathery clouds and the shadow of Saturn's rings (which look much like like wings). Psa. 91:1-4 says, "HE that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty....He shall cover thee with his feathers...under his wings shalt thou trust." Psa. 57:1 says, "in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast."

I would sure like to know more about this too. If you can turn up any other clues, please let me know. Two heads are often better than one.

Incoming Email

Have just been reading and rejoicing in 2 Corinthians 5:1,2,3,4 how this earthly tabernacle (body) will be dissolved and we will be clothed with our dwelling from heaven!Indeed in this "house " we groan!Also discovered that Shavuot (6 Sivan) is not only a traditional day for weddings, but also a day for burning OLD CLOTHES!It's a good illustration of the old body going up "in flames" or even chariots of fire? What a blessed hope!

My reply

I didn't know about burning old clothes. Thanks.

This section is copied from one of my replies to email too long to fit here

Rev. 17:10f says, "...and the other (the Beast) is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space....And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them...And the ten horns, which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

In my book, Revelations 2000, I had said that the ten kings "are co-regents under the Beast in the single kingdom, the world empire, Babylon III. They receive power (and crowns) one hour with the Beast. This hour is the 'hour of temptation (peirasmou,trial), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth,' the Tribulation. They will receive these crowns as it begins because the 'ten crowns' are seen on the horns of the beast out of the sea in Revelation 13:1" (pg. 371,2).

Now Pastor Riley has told us something else that ties in with these ten kings. In his recent newsletter, he said, "As we apply these truths to the end-time it is also interesting that on September 28, 1995, at the 'State of The World' conference held in California, Mikhail Gorbachev, the former ruler of Russia, pointedly recommended that the entire world be divided into ten 'regions' with twelve 'provinces' in each region (a total of 120 provinces). He further asked the assembled delegates to make him (Gorbachev) a 'regional governor' over one of the ten regions. Isn't it obvious that the 'world planners' are already feverishly working to bring about their long dreamed of 'one word (world) government'?"

Incoming Email

Once again I hope this email finds you well and rested if that is possible....I only have a glimpse of how tired you must be at times, I have two school age children....studying the Word til 1:30 am and up at 5:00 to start another day!! But God is faithful!!!!!!!!! Last evening late a friend caught me on the internet and began a short conversation that somehow led to discussing the two witnesses in Revelation. The conversation began to be short exchanges, he said, "two witnesses", i said "Moses and Elijah." He said "Enoch and Elijah." I replied "Enoch was a gentile." He said "It is appointed unto man once to die", Enoch never died. I said "Lazarus?" There was a long pause! He said "Hmmmm"

Anyway, I couldn't stay awake another minute so went to bed praying and thinking on this. I woke up this morning with same thoughts on my mind and was thinking about the fact that Enoch was/is a type of the rapture. Then began to think about the body of Christ and the last days church being the "feet". The thought then came to me of Enochs short but sweet testimony...Enoch WALKED with God and was not for God took him. FEET WALK!!!!!!!!!! I am sure that it is possible that you have had this thought already but I was so excited about having it that I thought I would send it on to you. It is so sweet to fellowship God. He is all together lovely! Once again Marilyn, thank you so much for your obedience to Him. Much Love in Christ

My reply

No, I had not made this connection. Thank you so much.

After your email came, I got to thinking that there might be some connection then with Elijah. Sure enough, he did not go up from Gilgal, or Bethel, or Jericho. He and Elisha had to WALK across the Jordan. It seems that they had to keep going on for awhile because his Rapture pictures the Rapture on the 2300th day of the Tribulation, rather than the Pre-Trib Rapture, or even his and Moses' Mid-Trib Rapture. In His abundant love

Incoming Email

> I am in central time zone. If it is midnight May 31st Jerusalem time,
> what time will it be here? I hope you are right in what you believe, it
> has really got my attention! God Bless You,

My reply

Go to this site to check the time in Jerusalem and then compare it with your time:
http://www.west.net/~lindley/zone/

Just be ready, whenever it happens.

Incoming Email

I just finished reading Greg Alston's blurb in Pro and Con 91 at your web site.

Perhaps I misunderstood him. Also, there was no reply posted from you.

Is he saying that we cannot know the time of the second rapture? I know it will happen after the sixth seal and before the seventh seal, but can the day be known? Or, perhaps because of the cosmic disturbances described in Revelation 6:12-17, the new moon will be unobservable by the two reliable witnesses needed to declare the official beginning of the new month? Perhaps I'm way off here, but I was just wondering. Could you clarify?

My reply

Greg was just discussing the first Rapture.

The Jews do not look for the new crescent moon to determine their months now. Greg brought this out. Charts are now available at least ten years in advance.

I think I know the date of the second Rapture, the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord, Tishri 1, 5768, our Sept. 13, 2007.

It seems to be locked into place by several things. There are 2300 days between the beginning of the Tribulation and that day (Dan. 8:14). There are exactly 2300 days, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007. There is now no other time within the 40 year period since the Sign of the End of the Age that this is true. Also, the ending year has to be a Jewish leap year for there to be 7 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1, when the Lord returns at the beginning of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year (Ezek. 39:12). The Jewish 5768 is a leap year, and that only comes on an average of every third year.

Incoming Email

Thank you for your reply. I don't know if there is any singular thing about Ron Wyatt's pages that I should tell to you. All his discoveries Noahs Ark,Sodom and Gomorrah, Exodus, Ark of Covenant and after flood events are interesting. Well - maybe one thing. They did analyze the blood from the crack of rock and/ or from the Mercy Seat. It was unique - it had 23 x-cromosomes and only One Y-cromosome. Proving that the blood was not of(ordinary) human with eatrhly father.

The first incoming email of pro-con 85 made me really think. That person could be on the right track. Strange weather and rain/snow could well mark the rapture of 'season of Noah'. Furthermore one could expect an unusually rainy summer. Why else would it be season of Noah. If after the second rapture is fire to be expected why not rain/floods after the first?

About your reply to him/her. I read somewhere in the net last year or so that (maybe) the earth had an 'watersphere' in the old days. That would explain why peoples life span was even over 900 years. That kind of protective layer would have stopped cosmic radiation etc. Also a specimen of Noah's Ark's timber had a laminated wood withouth 'yearcircles' (or whatever are they called in english) - suggesting ideal growing circumstances for all vegetation. There wasn't necessarily clouds in that era at all. It could be that - the Bible says the flood came from depths of the earth + from the sky - that,maybe, the 'watersphere' fell down. Anyway the first rainbow was after the flood. And maybe summer-winter seasons started back then....

If the rapture occurs as saturn rises over (eastern) Jerusalem horizon (about 2.30.am -3.30 am.) just before sunrise (about 4.30am), there could be those that make too hasty conclusions.

My reply

Thanks for telling me more of what is on Ron Wyatt's site. That information about the blood is sure interesting....

This snow is really getting interesting. It snowed in Jerusalem, New York, Moscow, Denver (snowed out the Dodger game) and our Southern California mountains. We had a beautiful vew of the snow today. The clouds finally cleared enough to see it, and it is even on some peaks that rarely have snow.

Something sure happened in Noah's day to shorten lifespans.

Someone just sent me a ring-binder-bound book on the Rapture. He thinks the Rapture will take place on next Pentecost, but at 9:00 AM, because the Holy Spirit came upon the apostles at that time. It looks like it will be very interesting reading. He agrees with me that the Crucifixion was on Thursday too.

Incoming Email

I just started reading your site. I like what I see....I haven't seen it mentioned by anyone else but on the Saturday before Easter, I was telling my wife and sons about your web site and the upcoming significance of Pentecost when on the horizon we all saw the Biggest, Reddest "Blood Moon" I think I've ever seen. More wonders in the sky! Even my three year old said, "God did that just for us Dad". Wish we all had the eyes of a child!

Keep up the great work and Thank you for your obedience to His Will,

My reply

Thanks for you kind comments.

Incoming Email

As I was reading your web-page I sat there stunned. Then a brief memory came to mind about Harold Campings book that advocated the rapture in I think 1993?

I'm still stunned. I don't know WHAT to think. I strange feeling is building that you might be correct in your theory. One thing though... John chapter 6 has always been a stumbling block for me because Jesus mentions the Resurrection occurs on THE LAST DAY. This passage has always made multiple comings of our Lord difficult to understand. Can you help?

My reply

John 6:37-40 is referring to when the entire Body of Christ is in Heaven, when every one that believes in Christ will be there. It doesn't rule out that the Bride is caught up first. Paul was working for this prize. There are ranks in the first resurrection (I Cor. 15:23's "order" is lit. rank). I Thess. 4:13-18 is the first trump. 1 Cor. 51,52 is the last trump. The latter corresponds with John 6:37-40. Notice the word "all" in both passages.

The days of Noah represent the first rank, the days of Lot the second. No fire falls the first time. Fire falls that same day the second time.

Incoming Email

FWD: Info from Peter Hader in response to the bible code matrix...

Your question regarding the matrix. Can it be manipulated? Yes and No. The matrix is made up of letters stung together from the Bible placed within a grid that x number across and x number down. These numbers can and do change but you do that so you can visually display the encoded words in a crossword like setting. The matrix is use just to show (visually) encoded words within the Bible in a horizontal, vertical, and diagonal manner and how related words crisscross each other You really can not manipulate what is already discovered encoded within the Bible. As for multiplying the numbers you just create a large matrix with the results (encoded words) a bit more harder to see because the are spread out even more.

I hope this answers you question.

Thank you again, Peter Hader

My reply

Thanks for sending this to me. I have had questions about the matrix myself. This sounds reasonable.

Incoming Email

I have not seen any information on your pages about the story of doubting Thomas. He said "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." A week later, when he finally saw, he said "My Lord and my God". Jesus then said to Thomas "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

We have not seen. We believe by faith. Jesus said we are blessed. I have read, but I don't know if you agree or not, that the raptured saints will be seen rising in the air like the diciples saw Jesus, and Elisha and 50 men, the company of the prophets, saw Elijah. If that is true how much faith will you need? It seems to me after witnessing a miracle like that, You will KNOW there is a God, who does what he says. At that time you will still have to choose God or Satan, but you certainly won't need much faith!

I would like to tie the blessing from Jesus as the privilege to be included among the believers at the rapture. You can still believe after you have seen, but you will miss out on the special blessing from Jesus.

Do you agree? Are there any more lessons to learn from Thomas?

Thanks for your great work. I plan on meeting you soon....

My reply

> I don't know if you agree or not, that the raptured
> saints will be seen rising in the air like the diciples saw Jesus,
> and Elisha and 50 men, the company of the prophets, saw Elijah.

Many will see the Rapture. Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was taken up out of a pit), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established by goings. And the hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

> I would like to tie the blessing from Jesus as the privilege to be included
> among the believers at the rapture. You can still believe after you have seen,
> but you will miss out on the special blessing from Jesus.
>
> Do you agree?

I think the Laodiceans who are left behind will be sorry that they didn't win the prize of going in the first Rapture. The Tribulation will not be fun.

Are there any more lessons to learn from Thomas?

If so, I'm too tired to think of them. It is 12:22 AM.

Thanks for your great work. I plan on meeting you soon.

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© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 5-6-98