Pro and Con 948

Posted 9-14-02

Incoming e-mail, Re: water stain vanished from wailing wall

9-12-02 7:46 AM
Christian for Israel, Moderator:
Posted: 9-12-02 6:24 am
check the upper right corner of the pic in my sig. the water WAS visible on the white stone. looks like it's gone now.

Posted: 9-12-02 6:31 am
Richard, site admin
now THATS interesting!

tired o this here place! ready to GIT GONE !
Christian for Israel, Moderator:
Posted: 9-12-02 7:15 am
yeah! i wonder what it means. or rather, what the Israeli's will think it means.

btw, looks like it wasn't plant sap after all, huh?

as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord
Belteshazzer, Seeker
Posted: Thu 9-12-02 1:24 pm
In my oppinion the time of repentance and tears are over. That was teshuva, Now we are in the days of Awe, next will come the day of attonement. Yom kippur. That means Judgement .Which is interesting since monday or tuesday depending on how you look at it is yom kippur. Pravda is reporting that the war will start on monday. we aalready know that it has already started but full scale will start soon. maranatha bel

My reply, I think the stain is STILL on the white stone

Water makes better sense to me. I don't see how resin could defy gravity and rise up in a nearly straight sided column like that. It didn't run down on the stone below, either. For comparison, here are about the first and last pictures I received with the stain on the white stone. Notice the difference in the size of the plant. It's growth suggests the presence of water.

I'm not convinced that the stain is gone permanently. Below are 2 pictures I got from today. I cropped the top one (taken at 8:40 AM, Jerusalem time) and adjusted the contrast and brightness so I could see the stain more clearly. It is in the center of the picture. The lower picture is just as I got it at 9.40 AM, Jerusalem time. Luckily, there is a plant that points to the adjacent stone on the right. That makes it easy to find the stain.

The Phenomenon of Water Eminating from the Wailing Wall and Orbs seen near the wall.
Editor's comments - On the water - If it wasn't for the FACT that this stone is obviously leaking from its surface a considerable amount of water to keep it wet in 90 degree weather rather than from a crack (and we all know water takes the path of least resistance) I would be inclined to pass this off....BUT regardless of any political situation - this seems to be a miracle. A four ton stone (which has stood silent and dry for 2,000 years) doesn't just suddently start to leak water. At the very least officials should be concerned about the damage and errosion - any amount of water with that great a pressure would compromise the structure of the wall....

New 'moon' found around Earth

by David Whitehouse

...An amateur astronomer may have found another moon of the Earth....It could be a passing chunk of rock captured by the Earth's gravity, or it could be a discarded rocket casing coming back to our region of space....

If it is determined that J002E2 is natural it will become Earth's third natural satellite.

Earth's second one is called Cruithne. It was discovered in 1986 and it takes a convoluted horseshoe path around our planet as it is tossed about by the Earth's and the Moon's gravity.

Earth's new 'moon' is space junk

Israel Waits for Sea of Galilee's Low Tide to Turn

Since 1998, the last normal year, the sea has dropped almost 20 feet.

IBERIAS, Israel — These days, even the lowest sinner can walk out onto the Sea of Galilee.

It is hardly a feat of faith. The water is simply not there any more, at least along vast stretches of bottom laid bare by a precipitous drop in the water level in recent years.

To a visitor returning for the first time since 1998, when the storied sea — actually a freshwater lake, called Kinneret by Israelis — was still full, the sight is flabbergasting....

The immediate cause of the current situation was a drastic shortage of rainfall in the winter of 1998-99...the worst winter in a century...

My comments

That lack of enough water in the Sea of Galilee seems like a sign of the approaching Tribulation. I think 1998 was the 6000th year of man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil. The 4 years of the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9 may have started in 1998. The year 1998 + 4 = 2002.

We know that there will be famine during the first half of the Tribulation. Moses and Elijah have the power to keep it from raining during their 1260-day ministry (Rev. 11:3). It looks like the reason for the famine has a head start already.

The present lack of enough water reminds me of Joseph's days in Egypt. Jacob/Israel went to Joseph (type of Christ) in the 2nd year of famine.

Gen. 45:6,7 (KJV) says, "For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest. And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives BY A GREAT DELIVERANCE (pleytah, concretely, an escaped portion:--deliverance, that is, an escape)."

Dr. Tabor's new sample of Genesis in the Transparent English Version (TEV) says, "For these two years the famine is in the middle of the land, and still are five years, which there is not plowing and harvest. and ELOHIM has sent me to your face, to place you for a leftover (his note: remnant) in the land, and TO CAUSE YOU TO LIVE BY A LARGE ESCAPE" (emphasis mine). That sounds like a type of the Rapture to me.

In the TEV, Dr. Tabor has tried to stay as close to the Hebrew as possible. It is refreshing to feel the cadence of the original language.

If the 7 good years started Sept. 13, 1993, when the Oslo Accords were signed, the 7 bad years would have started Sept. 13, 2000 and would end Sept. 13, 2007. We would now be at the end of the 2nd bad year. The 3rd would start Sept. 13, 2002. Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) is Sept. 16. Tabernacles is Sept. 21. Will we go up to Jerusalem, as the Israelites did, on the harvest-festival Tabernacles? We will know soon. Whenever it is, we had better be ready.

Incoming email

From: "Nehemia Gordon"
To: "Karaite Korner Newsletter"

Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 2:13 PM
Re: #113: New Moon Report - September 2002 - Seventh Month

On Sunday September 8, 2002 the new moon was sighted from Jerusalem, Israel by Devorah Gordon at 19:05 local time. The moon was sighted a minute later by Nehemia Gordon. The moon remained visible for an extended period of time in the clear Jerusalem sky. Pictures of the sighting are posted at:

The moon was also sighted by Bruce Brill and Sarah Reiser from elsewhere in Jerusalem at 18:55 and by Hen-el Brill from Tekoa at 19:10.

Yom Teruah Sameach! Nehemia Gordon

Incoming email, FWD: Re: Yom Teruah Officially Proclaimed From Jerusalem!!

Dear Marilyn, ???????

FWD: Original Message From Michael Rood

In the middle of the third century, the Pharisees adopted a calculated calendar which approximated the time of the new moon sighting in Jerusalem. One thousand six hundred years later, the entire Jewish world community- including the majority of Karaites - are conducting their business according to the Pharisee calendar instead of the Biblical "first sliver sighting of the new moon" and as a result, celebrated the Feast of Yom Teruah TWO days early this year.

The first sliver of the new moon of Tishri was spotted by Sylvia Raum at 16:58 pm Sunday evening, September 8th, from the veranda of The Last Great Day Productions office in Jerusalem. It was confirmed by Michael Rood and 15 other Feast participants. The ram's horn shofars were blown in obedience to the ancient rehearsals embedded in the Feasts of the LORD. The 10 days of Awe have begun, leading up to the Day of Atonement. It is 15 days before we begin the Feast of Tabernacles.

My reply

After reading Gen. 8:13,14 in Dr. Tabor's new translation of Genesis for the Original Bible Project, I am more inclined to go along with visually sighting the new moon. It says, "And it was, in the one and six hundredth year--in the first--on day one to the new moon, the waters were dried up from upon the land; and Noah turned aside the covering of the vessel, and he saw, and look!--dried up was the face of the ground. And in the second new moon, on the seventh and twentieth day to the new moon, the land was dry."

Incoming email

Re: Satan 's Hidden History - Asteroids & Comets & Exploded Planets - Cherubim

Here is a very informative article that shares your view about Satan's planet Rahab etc.

My reply

Yes. Soon after I put up my web site, they told me they read my book. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Satan's Hidden History website.
I don't know if you've seen this website, I thought it was interesting. I've learned so much about Rahab from you! I don't know how accurate this website is, but it's food for thought. Love to you and Ed. YSIC.
Asteroids, Comets, Rahab & Mars
Cherubim & the Megaliths of Cydonia
The "Stones of Fire" and Pre-Adamite Civilizations

My reply

I think the writer is right about Satan's planet Rahab. It seems that because of Satan's sin, the Lord caused Rahab to be hit with a space rock big enough to break the planet apart. Pieces hit Mars and damaged it badly. I think a piece hit Earth and blasted the Moon out of the Pacific Basin.

Job 26:11,12 in the KJV says, "The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof. He divideth (raga, tossed suddenly and violently) the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth (machats, crushes, dashes asunder, pierces through) through the proud (rahab)." Gen 1:9,10 tells us that "God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas."

Here are some other translations of Job 26:12:
(WEB) "He stirs up the sea with his power, And by his understanding he strikes through Rahab."
(ASV) "He stirreth up the sea with his power, And by his understanding he smiteth through Rahab."
(Darby) "He stirreth up the sea by his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through Rahab."
(NAB) "By his power he stirs up the sea, and by his might he crushes Rahab."
I think the face on Mars is accidental, but Mars was so badly damaged that most of her water and atmosphere were blown off. At one time, Earth became waste and desolation. Agape

Mars Odyssey 2001

Cydonia Infrared Images

Rio hosts first United Religions assembly

Posted at 5 Doves site by Donna Danna (9 Sep 2002)
by Dennis Delman
(ENS) With its theme of "Sharing the Sacred, Serving the World," the United Religions Initiative's first Global Assembly opened its weeklong meeting in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on August 18, 2002.


Christian Science Monitor STAR ISLAND, N.H. – Dozens of scientists were among the 245 participants at the recent annual conference of the Institute on Religion in an Age of Science, where attendees grappled with the question: "Is Nature Enough? The Thirst for Transcendence."

Whether trained in physics, astronomy, or organizational systems, the scientists shared dreams of reshaping a religious landscape they see as fraught with peril. At the same time, some confided yearnings for a genuine religious experience of their own. And for one week, surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean, they took their best shot at both.

Discussions of religious faith have in recent years become increasingly friendly terrain for scientists. Academic institutions that once spurned any ties between the two fields now study the effects of prayer on physical healing and convene scholars to connect science with spirituality. Suggested reasons vary: Perhaps postmodern critiques of objectivity have made religion more acceptable to scientists, or maybe the growth of interdisciplinary studies has made fusion inevitable. Whatever the reason, IRAS conferences are reflecting the shift as scientists this year outnumbered theologians by more than 5-1.

My reply

I'm glad to hear this.

As you know, there have been many scientists that were also Christian. When I was in my teens and asking him about fossils, my dad (steeped in science) said that he had never found anything in science that interfered with his religion.

The more we find out about our world, the more we can see that God had to creat everything. Nothing as involved as the food chain could have just happened by itself at just the right time. It had to be planned from the bottom up. Every creature has to have its food, or they die out. Nothing as diverse as the multitude of species evolved. Nothing as miraculous as the workings of our bodies evolved, either.

From Adam to now, it should be obvious that we are not evolving into something else. Apes are not evolving into something else, either. They are what they were created to be. Some scientists find a hitherto unknown species, and what do they do right away? They try to figure out what that species could have evolved from, as if it has to have evolved from something else.

The scientists that choose to ignore the Bible try to come up with a theory that will work. Then, they test that theory. They make a lot of busy work for themselves trying to figure things out without allowing for the existence of God. There is a lot of spinning of wheels. Agape

Incoming email, Re: The False Prophet

For a long time now, I have wondered about the False Prophet referred to in Revelations and in other passages of the Bible, as it speaks about the antichrist. Would like to know what your theory is on who or what that may be. Need some clarification on that point. Thanks.

My reply

For the Jews to accept him as the Messiah, I think he would need to be Jewish and set up his earthly Kingdom.

Since Christ did not set up a visible earthly Kingdom at the First Advent, many Jews do not think he was their Messiah. They fail to see that there are 2 comings of the one Messiah. Instead, they give it a twist and say that there are 2 Messiahs, Messiah ben David and Messiah ben Joseph. Joseph was an OT type of Christ, not the Messiah/Saviour himself. Y'shua/Jesus is Messiah ben David. He will return and set up his earthly Kingdom 7 Jewish months (Eze. 39:12,13) after the Day of God's Wrath.

The False Prophet is not to be revealed until we are gone. We are the salt of the earth that retards the growth of leaven in breadmaking. After we are caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, the wicked one will be revealed. Agape

Incoming email, Re: The Feast of Tabernacles

...I am sending you a page from a Christian site I visit regarding the Feast of Tabernacles.

A couple of days ago, I was at a book store and pick up a book titled "Introduction to Judaism". I was interested it what it would say about the various Feasts in the Old testament. I opened the book to the area of Feasts, and immediately the description of the Feast of Tabernacles popped up.

I'm writing this from memory, but first it said that the celebration was to spend "7 days with Adonai". Then it said that the booth was to be large enough for the "head and most of the body of an adult male, including a table to eat the feast on". There were other interesting points but was immediatly reminded "first one foot, or part of the body, then the other foot" I wished I had bought the book, but will look for it again.

Thought I would check out a site which lists background on the feasts. It is very different from the one in the book store but good in other ways. I think I may have sent you a page from this site before, but that was on an email about Rosh Hashanah.

I also have a question. So many times I hear people say,"Well, Jesus isn't coming any time soon as the Gospel hasn't been preached worldwide yet." It seems that we look at things from a perspective of today, and forget that some continents had the gospel, and gave it up. I know you have had to respond to that with all the email's you receive. Could you help by noting some of the scriptures that would encourage a "line upon line, precept upon precept approach". Agape, and Blessings

My reply

...Thanks for sending the article. To me, this is the most interesting part. "The Daily Circuit of the Altar — of the priests in the Temple and circuit of the altar— of this seven times on the last day of the feast, the Day of the Great Hosanna"

It reminds me of what happened at Jericho when the walls fell down flat. The harlot Rahab and her family were saved out of that destruction because she had helped the Israelites. That family didn't have to be martyred and resurrected. The living were saved from the destruction, depicting the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

At the end of the article, I got a surprise. Here is what it says. "Whether or not our suggestions be adopted as to the typical meaning of the two great ceremonies of the 'pouring out of the water' and the Temple illumination, the fact remains, that the Feast of Tabernacles is the one only type in the Old Testament which has not yet been fulfilled."

That makes me wonder when Edersheim thought the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement were fulfilled. I don't think they have been fulfilled yet.

> > I hear people say,"Well, Jesus isn't coming any time soon as the Gospel hasn't been preached worldwide yet."

Mat 24:14-16 says, "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world (oikoumene, inhabited earth) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall THE END come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains."

The end in view is the last half of the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation. The gospel will have gone out to all nations by Mid-Trib. The two witnesses will prophesy during the first 1260 days of the 7 years. Even now, missionaries, TV, radio, and Internet have reached most, if not all, nations.

The line-upon-line scripture is Isa 28:13. It says, "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Agape

Incoming email

I don't understand the different calendars I gather you have a better grasp on it. My question is, Are our calendars off so much that the actual 2000 years isn't until next year, 2003?

With the way things are going and with all the visions, dreams, angel visits, ect... I cannot see it going that long, but who am I? I will continue to wait and watch and pray and Guard my self until whenever. Do we figure from the time of Christ's birth or death and is it until the beginning of trib or the end of the trib? (2000 years?)

My reply

> > Are our calendars off so much that the actual 2000 years isn't until next year, 2003?

I doubt it. I worked a long time on Bible Chronology. The one author I could agree with was Martin Anstey. He wrote "The Romance of Bible Chronology." David Cooper, who wrote "Messiah: His First Coming Scheduled," checked Anstey's work carefully. He found a few little errors, but nothing that would change the outcome.

When working on the date of Jesus' birth and crucifixion, I read everything I could find on it in BIOLA's Seminary Collection. I read everything I could find in the Rare Books section, even old handwritten MSS that had the final "s" shaped like our "f."

I think Jesus' birth was Tishri 1 in BC 5, his crucifixion on Thursday, Nisan 13 in 30 AD, forty years (Eze. 4:6), one generation, before the temple was burned in 70 AD.

My work on the 2000-year ages (Age of the Gentiles, Age of the Jews and Age of the Church) convinced me that the Age of the Gentiles began in BC 4004/4003, when Adam was cast out of Eden. From then on, mankind was to be tested being mortal and knowing both good and evil. That test runs 7000 years, with one deviation. The Tribulation is the ends (plural) of the ages--all three of them running concurrently.

I Cor. 10:11 (LITV) says, "all these things happened to those as examples, and it was written for our warning, on whom the ENDS OF THE AGES have come."

It looks like the Tribulation is not only the 70th week of Dan. 9:27, but is the end-time trial that is to come upon the whole world left after the Bride of Christ is raptured.

According to my work on Bible Chronology, the 6000 years since Adam was cast out of Eden would have ended on Tishri 1, 5758 (Sept. 21, 1998).

It seems that the generation born in 1967 will end Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Thus it seems that 10 years (5758 to 5768) are inserted between the normal end of the Church Age and the millennial Day of the Lord. They are for testing mankind. So far, the Church has been tested four years before the Tribulation begins. When the Tribulation begins at the Rapture of the overcomers of the Church Age, there will be 1260 days for the reign of the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10. After that is the shortened Great Tribulation, when the Satan-possessed False Prophet rules. His rule ends when the millennial Day of the Lord begins.

> > Do we figure from the time of Christ's birth or death and is it until the beginning of trib or the end of the trib? (2000 years?)

The way I figured it, the Age of the Church started when Jesus was given kingly gifts by the Magi in BC 4/3. He was about 2. That's why Herod had the male children 2 and under killed in Bethlehem.

I think the 2000 years have already run their course. It seems like the 4 years of the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9 may have started in 1998. Adding the 4 years brings us to 2002.

If the 7 good and 7 bad years started when the Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754, we would be in the end of the 2nd bad year right now. The Jewish 5763 starts Sept. 7, 2002.

That fits the OT type. Jacob/Israel went to Joseph (type of Christ) in the 2nd bad year (i.e., 2002), when there were yet 5 more years of famine (Gen. 45:6) (i.e., 2007). This may show us when the Pre-Trib Rapture will be and when the end of the shortened Tribulation will be. We should know soon.

Gen 45:6-8 says, "For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest. And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God." The Hebrew word translated "deliverance" is pleytah, deliverance; concretely, an escaped portion:--deliverance, (that is) escape(-d), remnant.

Gen. 45:7 (YLT) says, "God sendeth me before you, to place of you a remnant in the land, and to give life to you by A GREAT ESCAPE" (the Rapture). Agape

Incoming email, Re: Check out your own work have you any books regarding this that you have written? IM going to Barnes and Noble today to see what I can find. We here in Spokane don't have much to offer as far as research material, to my knowledge. Perhaps I may be taking a study first hand in Heaven real soon. But IM to occupy. I cant wait to meet our Savior and friends when I get there, If Jesus finds me worthy. Love you much

My reply

I have read several books on Bible Codes, but have not written any.

Ever since May 31, 1998, I have thought that we can't go by dates shown by the so-called Bible Codes. I have 2 matrix's that suggested that the Rapture would take place on Pentecost, May 31, 1998. It didn't. I'm quick to learn and quick to sort and discard anything that doesn't seem right. I left Bible Codes alone after that date passed.

Every Hebrew letter has a date. I think that is too many dates for any to be really significant. Another thing that has bothered me from the first is the makeup of the matrix itself. How do we know that crossing letters are in the right place?

However, finding the word Yeshua at different skip distances does seem to be by design. That does not involve crossing words.

Awhile back, someone offered to get me Bible Code software. I was still using the Mac with a total of 17 megs memory and a 40 meg hard disk. I turned the offer down, first because I didn't think my computer could handle it, and second because it would take up too much of my time. I felt it would usurp time that I should be spending studying the surface meaning of Scripture. There is more there than we can dig out in one lifetime. Agape

Re: Yacov Rambsel's Discoveries

posted by CAPS (9 Sep 2002) ...According to his research, Rambsel thinks the Antichrist will be from the tribe of Dan, and that he'll be part Arab. At any rate, he says he'll be out of the Middle East. He discussed the 10 nations of the Roman Empire and how we'll be gone in the Rapture BEFORE the Antichrist is revealed. He even brought out II Th. 2 where it talks about the fact that there will be a "falling away first" and how that meant "departure" (he said all writings up to 400 years ago translated the original correctly by saying there would be a "departure" BEFORE the A/C was revealed, then at that time, someone changed the original to mean "apostacy"...

Incoming email, Does this sound like Rapture to you?

Check out
Lorie Jean (10 Sep 2002)
"caught up together with them in the CLOUDS....." -could it be Tabernacles?"

read this and consider if this is talking about the rapture:

by Eddie Chumney

My reply

Thanks for the article by Eddie Chumney, a man of good understanding, a messianic Jew. Here are some excerpts:

Since Tabernacles is to be kept AFTER THE INGATHERING, maybe the Day of Atonement fits the ingathering, i.e., the Rapture. De. 16:13 says, "Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, AFTER that thou HAST GATHERED (acaph, gathered up, taken up, taken away, withdrawn) in thy corn (grain) and thy wine."

> > According to tradition, Moses (Moshe) again ascended Mount Sinai for 40 days and nights to receive the second set of tablets and descended on Yom Kippur, carrying them as a sign of G-d's forgiveness of Israel for the sin of the golden calf, and as a symbol of the lasting covenant between G-d and Israel (Exodus [Shemot] 24:12-18; 34:1-2; 27-28). The following day Moses (Moshe) relayed G-d's instructions for building the mishkan -- a dwelling place. Material for this portable structure was collected during the days before Sukkot, and work was begun on it (the mishkan or tabernacle) (Exodus [Shemot] 35; 36:1-7)....

The Tabernacle was God's portable dwelling place. The church is also God's portable dwelling place, for the Holy Spirit dwells in believers. The material for the Tabernacle was collected before the Feast of Tabernacles. Could this mean that believers would be collected before the Feast of Tabernacles? Wouldn't that place the beginning of the collection on the Day of Atonement?

> > the third feast of Tishrei was a time of joy. Israel had passed through the season of repentance and redemption. > > Sukkot is called the "Season of Our Joy." One reason Sukkot was a time of joy was that after the season of repentance (Teshuvah) and the redemption of Yom Kippur came the joy of knowing your sins were forgiven and the joy of walking with G-d, knowing G-d, and being obedient to G-d.... Could the day of redemption be the Day of Atonement? Eph 4:30 says, "grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption (apolutrosis, deliverance, i.e., the Rapture).

Eph 1:14 says, "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

Luk 21:28 says, "when these things (signs in the Sun, Moon and Constellations, v. 25) begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption (i.e., Rapture) draweth nigh."

> > Like the other pilgrimage festivals, Sukkot [tabernacles] has an agricultural element. It marks the time of the harvest, the final ingathering of produce before the oncoming winter. Hence, it is also called Hag HaAsif, the festival of Ingathering.

The men of Israel were to go up to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles. We will go up to New Jerusalem at the Rapture. That could suggest Tabernacles for the Rapture.

> > the greatest light and witness the world has ever known was Jewish. His name is Yeshua, the Messiah!

Amen! Agape

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