Pro and Con 95, Uploaded 5-9-98

Incoming Email

Just a quick note to tell you that I just received my Personal Update from Koinonia House and they had an article about bible codes, both micro and macro, the rapture, the seven feasts of Israel, and Enoch. I thought you might like to check it out.
http://www.khouse.org/articles/update/codes9805.html
"A provocative possibility it that the feast of weeks may prove predictive of both the birth and removal of the church in God's program."

Also, I just wanted to add that I do hope you are right about May 31, but I am concerned about people's reaction if it doesn't happen then. I have seen some pretty negative things written about date-setting, including quoting the passages about the millstone and offences. When I was still in high school (I graduated in '81) I thought that 1988 was the year because of the 'Jupiter effect' I think it was called....

My reply

Thanks so much for this URL. I printed the article out. Someone had phoned and told me about it. Another was going to FAX it to me, so I am delighted to get a copy right away.

This part is especially interesting to me: "The Feast of Pentecost was also one of only three which were obligatory for all males. Historically, this feast is viewed as commemorating the birth of the nation and the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai." The footnote explains: "10. Exodus 19:11. This is reckoned by the rabbis as follows: The Passover in Egypt was on the 14th of Nisan; the crossing of the Red Sea, 3 days later on the 17th. They are viewed as arriving at Mount Sinai on the 3rd day of the 3rd month, ostensibly on the 3rd of Sivan, 46 days later. Moses is told to prepare for the "3rd day." That would be Sivan 6, which is Pentecost.

Since Pentecost is considered the birth of Israel. This FWD I received may be especially interesting to you:

>>From: "James D. Tabor"
>>Subject: Israel at 50
>>
>>In case you missed it, today's NYTimes story on Israel's Jubilee
>>celebration...celebrated yesterday and today on the Jewish calendar Iyar
>>5/6--but May 14th on Gregorian calendar, and then, coming at the end of
>>this month of May, the "true" Biblical date: May 31st, Sivan 5/6--none
>>other than Shavuot. As I have pointed out various times in 1948 the
>>official Jewish calendar that marked Iyar 5/6 was actually on the
>>"Biblical" calendar Sivan 5/6, a Shabbat--incredibly significant that the
>>State was born on Shavuot--Exo 20 revisited, etc. Anyway, Shabbat Shalom
>>to all.
>>
>>James Tabor

Dr. Tabor (who is translating the Bible for The Original Bible Project) mentioned that modern Israel was reborn on Shavuot (Pentecost) on this "Biblical" calendar in an earlier email to me too. As I remember, he explained that this calendar is simply figured on when the crescent new moon is sighted; no complicated other rules are used.

Now what interests me so much is all the things that tie together. If Israel was born the first time on Pentecost, and she was reborn in 1948 on Pentecost, then Pentecost does have more than one fulfillment; no doubt about it. Since Israel was resurrected, Pentecost also has to do with resurrection.

I Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples (examples, types): and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit. ages) are come."

If the first birth of Israel was on Pentecost, and the resurrection of Israel was on Pentecost, doesn't it then follow that since the first birth of the Church was on Pentecost, the resurrection of the Church (the Rapture) will also be on Pentecost?

Since this coming Pentecost is May 31st, it was nice how Chuck Missler's Newsletter article ended: "For those subscribers who don't hold a pre-tribulation view, don't be concerned: we will have mailed our June newsletter before May 31."

> Also, I just wanted to add that I do hope you are right about May 31,
> but I am concerned about people's reaction if it doesn't happen then. I
> have seen some pretty negative things written about date-setting, including
> quoting the passages about the millstone and offences.

What does it hurt to get ready, confess our sins and be filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit so as to be wise virgins in case this is the time of the Rapture? What will we have lost? We will be earning rewards in heaven because all our good deeds will be done while filled with the Holy Spirit.

As to negative things, there are always those that are negative to anything new that is proposed. There are those that are negative even about Scripture. Jerusalem's Joe Zias (Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology, Israel Antiquities Authority) says this of Mt. Sinai, "Personally I believe that it is simply a literary invention which is why it will never be found." Others are negative to Jesus Christ himself, and he is the creator (John 1:1-3; Heb. 1:2).

Jesus told us 23 times to watch. It is important. He warned the churches, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief (i.e., at Rapture II near Armageddon, Rev. 7:14; 8:1f; 16:15,16), and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

Those that do watch will know what hour he will come to the church. The rest are in danger of being Laodicean castaways who are spewed out of his mouth and who will have to wait to be caught up on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. That is the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

I, like Paul, am working for the prize of being caught up at the first high calling of God in Jesus Christ, the Pre-Trib Rapture. The wise virgins are the ones who go with the Bridegroom, therefore they are the Bride of Christ. The others are the remnant of the Body of Christ. The first group are made priests and kings (Rev. 5:10). The second group are servants in the temple (Rev. 7:15).

Incoming Email

Dean & Laura Van Druff (studies@acts17-11.com) wrote: Re: M.J. Agee vs. Christ? Who to believe?

> The idea of "imminency" - that Jesus could come at any time, or before certain events occur -
> directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Scripture in general.
>
> 2 Thes 2:1-5 (Wey) But with respect to the Coming
> of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to
> meet Him, we entreat you, brethren... Let no one in
> any way deceive you, for that day cannot come
> without the coming of the apostasy first, and the
> appearing of the man of sin, the son of perdition,
> who sets himself against, and exalts himself above,
> every so-called 'god' or object of worship, and goes
> the length of taking his seat in the very temple of God,
> giving it out that he himself is God... Do you not
> remember that while I was still with you I used to tell
> you all this?
>
> Has the man of sin been revealed? Has he set himself up as the abomination that
> causes desolation to be worshiped in the TEMPLE? If not, then "Let no one in any
> way deceive you, for that day CANNOT come..."
>
> This is not a matter of opinion, this is a matter of whether we will heed the word
> of the Lord or rebel against it.
>
> Zech. 7:11-13 (NIV) "But they refused to pay attention;
> stubbornly they turned their backs and stopped up their
> ears. They made their hearts as hard as flint and would
> not listen... So the LORD Almighty was very angry.
> "When I called, they did not listen; so when they called,
> I would not listen,' says the LORD Almighty."
>
> Notice the time sequential phrases all through Jesus's Olivette discourse. While
> the level of detail changes, in all three recordings of this sermon THE ORDER is
> essentially the same.
>
> Thus, you can understand why Paul was irritated at how quickly the Thessalonians
> had forgotten this teaching.
>
> Mr 8:38 (NIV) "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and
> sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his
> Father's glory with the holy angels."
>
> Eph 4:14-15 (Phi) We are not meant to remain as children at the mercy
> of every chance wind of teaching, and of the jockeying of men who are
> expert in the crafty presentation of lies. But we are meant to speak the
> truth in love, and grow up in every way into Christ, as the head.
>
> Eph 5:15-17 (NIV) Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise
> but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.
> Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.
>
> Dean & Laura Van Druff
> Acts 17-11 Bible Studies; http://www.acts17-11.com; studies@acts17-11.com

My reply

> The idea of "imminency" - that Jesus could come at any time, or before
> certain events occur - directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus
> and the Holy Spirit in Scripture in general.

I have said that the word "imminency" does not appear in the Bible.

> 2 Thes 2:1-5 (Wey) But with respect to the Coming
> of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to
> meet Him, we entreat you, brethren... Let no one in
> any way deceive you, for that day cannot come
> without the coming of the apostasy first, and the
> appearing of the man of sin

One thing you do not understand in this passage is that this is not talking about the Day of Christ, which is the Rapture, but the Day of the Lord, which is the Millennium that does not begin until the 2300th day of the Tribulation (Dan.8:14).

I Thess. 2:2 in the NIV has it correctly translated as "the day of the Lord."

Another thing which you fail to consider is that the greek "apostasia" can mean departing, and was so translated in early Bibles, The Geneva Bible, Tyndale's translation, Cranmer's version, The Great Bible, Breecher's Bible, Beza's translation and the Coverdale Bible." It might help if you would take time to look them up.

"Apostasia" means defection from a state, separation (as in divorce); from the root "aphistemi," TO WITHDRAW ONESELF, DESERT A STATION IN LIFE, remove, go away, absent oneself from, DEPART. The Rapture must come first, and then th man of sin can be revealed, the son of perdition. Until the salt that is retarding the growth of leaven, evil, is taken away from Earth, the Holy Spirit is hindering the appearance of the man of sin, the wicked one. The NIV says, "And now you know what is HOLDING HIM BACK, so that he may be revealed at the proper time" (II Thes.. 2:6). He cannot be revealed until after we have departed in the Rapture.

The departing is the Rapture. It has to take place before the False Prophet and the Roman Beast confirm to peace treaty for that reveals who they are. Therefore, the departure (Rapture, when we "shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air," I Thess. 4:17) must take place before the treaty is confirmed as the Seventieth Week of Daniel begins.

> Has the man of sin been revealed? Has he set himself up as the
> abomination that causes desolation to be worshiped in the TEMPLE?
> If not, then "Let no one in any way deceive you, for that day CANNOT come..."

The man of sin has not been revealed. Therefore the Day of the Lord cannot come yet. Elijah has not begun his prophesying either. Mal. 4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD."

The Rapture takes place in Rev. 4:1: "a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard (Christ, 1:10) was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" (after the Rapture). Elijah does not appear until Rev. 11, "hereafter" the Rapture.

> This is not a matter of opinion, this is a matter of whether we will
> heed the word of the Lord or rebel against it.

Be certain that you understand what the Word says so you can heed it. Don't stubbornly refuse to consider this or stop your ears. When he calls, "Come up hither" we are to not only be listening but watching.

> Zech. 7:11-13 (NIV) "But they refused to pay attention;
> stubbornly they turned their backs and stopped up their
> ears. They made their hearts as hard as flint and would
> not listen... So the LORD Almighty was very angry.
> "When I called, they did not listen; so when they called,
> I would not listen,' says the LORD Almighty."

After the wise virgins (translated as "betrothed brides" by Peter Michas) go with the Bridegroom, the foolish ones say, "Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore" (Mt. 25:11-13).

In Rev. 3:3, Jesus told the churches, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief (just before Armageddon, Rev. 16:15,16), and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." If we do watch, we can know what hour he will come upon the church.

>Eph 4:14-15 (Phi) We are not meant to remain as children at the mercy
>of every chance wind of teaching, and of the jockeying of men who are
>expert in the crafty presentation of lies. But we are meant to speak
>the truth in love, and grow up in every way into Christ, as the head.

The church is not a child anymore. She is ready for strong meat. And it is presented in love that we might grow up in every way into the fully developed and worthy Body of Christ.

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is."

Incoming Email

Jim Bramlett wrote: Re: But what if...?

Will the rapture be this month, or in 1998? I do not know for sure. There are certainly reasons for expectation and hope, but I cannot say that I have a personal assurance. People smarter than I strongly believe it will, and people smarter than I strongly believe it won't. Even our astute sister Marilyn Agee indicates that she is not absolutely certain, although it is her understanding. Aside from human opinions, the only important question is: "What is the Spirit saying?" Let us keep our spiritual ears carefully tuned. I expect more revelations to be forthcoming (unless the Lord is saying, "Haven't I given you enough already?").

A lady asked me the other day, "But what if it doesn't happen?"

No problem. We worship Jesus, not dates. We trust in His perfect wisdom, love and grace. We will keep on watching, hoping, waiting, trusting and serving. His ways are perfect, just and right. Our hearts will remain warm with the hope of soon beholding Him face to face. We still know that he is coming very, very soon.

It takes more courage to be expectant and vocal about it that to doubt. I admire Marilyn Agee and people like her. Doubting is the safe way, the easy way. In the world's ways, doubting is a win-win approach: If the rapture occurs anyhow, the doubter figures, "No problem." But if it doesn't occur, he gleefully and pridefully exclaims, "I told you so." (We have seen that.) But ultimately the doubter is always the loser.

Long ago I decided to be a fool for Christ. And if a fool, I had rather be a fool on the side of expectation than a doubting fool.

Personally, I am looking for Him this month. But if He is a no-show, He still lives in my heart, my source of joy. I will not be dismayed. I will not be depressed. How can a blood-bought, blood-justified, blood-sanctified, Holy Ghost-filled, devil-stomping, totally victorious vessel of the living God be depressed? Our God reigneth! I will just keep watching, and helping add a few more living stones to His spiritual house and eternal kingdom.

Jim

My reply

My heartfelt thanks.

Incoming Email

Grant, Joe wrote: Re: Bottom Line

Part of a Pro/Con email to Agee: "So then, once again, given these three points, how again can you be so sure that it will be Pentecost '98?" Agee's answer: "I have never said it has to happen when I think it will. After studying the scriptures intensively for over 38 years, this is how it looks to me. You are responsible for searching the scriptures to see if these things are so."

The bottom line regarding May 31,1998 is that we do not know for absolute certainty. But there is a lot of evidence that points to that date and it is prudent to be ready. The Lord said 23x to 'watch and pray'. Looking at the evidence and looking at 31 May 1998 is consistent with that. If it does not happen on that date it cannot be far off. At the least it serves as a major wake up call to be ready because it will be too late to be getting ready. It will be too late if we do not have sufficient oil in our lamps. If nothing happens on 31 May this web site has provided the motivation that I needed to be alert, to be prepared, to walk in holiness, to fear coming judgements of the Lord, to increase my witness to the lost, to pray more for the lost, to not be influenced by the spirit of this world and to use every opportunity to discuss being ready with my children. There are many prophets, from different streams, that the Lord has raised up in this day and they confirm what we see in the news: judgment is at our doorstep. If there is any opportunity to escape the hour of unimaginable testing that is coming upon the whole earth I don't want to miss it.

My reply

Thanks.

Incoming Email

After reading all the Pro/Cons I feel so sad that people want to debate whether you are right or wrong, rather than be glad that you are helping so many brothers and sisters in the LORD to return to their first love JESUS!

I had a dream one night that I am sure was the rapture. The clouds were so white and were rolling in very fast (almost like the cloud you see when a volcano erupts). Then a trumpet sounded and I sat up in bed (woke myself up) saying Michael. This was not good because my husbands name is ---. I looked at him and thank GOD he was still asleep! ha ha

I thought at the time it was the rapture, but I said Michael. I always assumed it would be Gabriel to sound the trumpet and so I figured it was just a strange dream. I did get up out of bed just to make sure my 10 yr. old daughter was still there. It just recently dawned on me that Michael is the angel over Israel, and it probably was the rapture trumpet!

Also one night I woke up (most of the time when this happens someone pops into my mind and I have to pray for them), When nothing happened I started to lay back down, and as I did I looked out the bedroom window. In the northern sky stars started shooting first from the right to the left. As they did they formed the face of JESUS, as the last two stars hit they made his eyes, and Marilyn they were red! It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen, and all I could do was to say thank you Jesus!

I don't know why I am sharing this with you other than to let you know that when you shared about the light shining on your bible telling you to publish your book..I believed you. Isn't it wonderful how Jesus has time to show us things in his own way that let us know how real he is!

I know you are very busy, sorry this is so long but you have been on my mind today and I just started writing. GOD's blessings to you!

My reply

Thanks so much for sharing this with me. The Lord must have put me on your mind because I needed a lift today. Thirty yards of banding to make and apply to draperies, at least 65 Pro and Cons to print (without the capability of background printing or setting up in a queue), who knows how many Pro and Cons to put HTML on and upload to my Web page by the time I try to get around 30K in each one (maybe 7), over 100 emails in my Inbox, a 2-hour appointment to keep, books to mail, pain in my jaw and ear (a tooth has split so a piece of it can be tilted away from the rest of the tooth and the SCAN/HMO dentist still won't pull it), all were a bit overwhelming. I hurry as fast as I can go, but keep falling behind. I woke up crying. Then I got the email from Dean & Laura Van Druff. The tears didn't stop for awhile. Then I got a few nice emails and began to feel some better. After the Lord used me to help someone understand a few points about the Bible at the appointment, I have been fine the rest of the day.

Incoming Email

Dear Marilyn, This was on the 5 Doves' site tonight. You may already have seen it. Interesting that the scripture adds to $2.34 which was Vincent's angel money for gas. God bless you.
---
John -
Mj Agee's last name appears in the Bible. she has mentioned this before.

it is AGE, translated Agee.

it's roster number is 89h.

it has a gematria of 5.

89 5

it appears in II Samuel 23:11

2 23:11 22311 223 + 11 = 234.

in Jesus -
clay

My reply

Thanks for sending this. I have so much to do in so little time that I can't go on the Internet much. I didn't even get the significance of 89 5 until I read it the second time. Turn it around and you get 5 98. Whew! I hope for that. I'm glad you reminded me of the $2.34, or that correlation would have gotten by me.

Incoming Email

I have heard Chuck Missler on his Ruth teaching tape and heard him mention the tradition of Enoch being taken on the 6th of Sivan. I noted that you quoted Chuck on your webpage and thought that you would find the following interesting.

As it turns out I have a book that I purchased quite a few years ago called 'The Lost Books of The Bible and The Forgotten Books of Eden' published by World Bible Publishers, Inc. copyright 1926 ISBN number 0-529-03385-2

Here is the preface to the Book of the Secrets of Enoch (Page 81)

"This new fragment of early literature came to light through certain manuscripts which were recently found in Russia and Servia and so far as is yet known has been preserved only in Slavonic. Little is known of its origin except that in its present form it was written somewhere about the beginning of the Christian era. Its final editor was a Greek and the place of its composition Egypt. Its value lies in the unquestioned influence which it has exerted on the writers of the New Testament. Some of the dark passages of the latter being all but inexplicable wihout its aid ...."

In chapter LXVIII of the Secrets of Enoch it reads as follows:

(1) Enoch was born on the sixth day of the month Tsivan, and lived three hundred and sixty-five years.
(2) He was taken up to heaven on the first day of the month Tsivan and remained in heaven sixty days.
(3) He wrote all these signs of all creation, which the Lord created, and wrote three hundred and sixty-six books, and handed them over to his sons and remained on earth thirty days, and was again taken up to heaven on the sixth day of the month Tsivan, on the very day and hour when he was born.

So we see another confirmation of the 6th of Sivan date.

My reply

Thanks for this very interesting information. I'll post it for all to see. Keep up the good work. See you in glory

Incoming Email

The shortened trib ends on Tishri 1 in 2007, but Yeshua doesn't return until the following Nisan 1? I thought the trib ended with His return?

My reply

You and a whole lot of others.

According to Dan. 8:14, the shortened Tribulation lasts 2300 days. It includes the time the Jews can sacrifice in the temple and the time that they can't because the temple is desecrated on the 1260th day.

The 2300th day from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 (counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning) is Tishri 1, 2007. Joel 2:1,2 shows that this is the beginning of the millennial Day of the Lord, a day of "thick darkness...there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it." It is the Day of God's Wrath.

In Ezekiel 38:18-20, we see what happens on the Day of God's Wrath: "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog (note: the demon king; see Amos 7:1 in the LXX) shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (sight, as in Eze. 36:31; it's when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen, Mt. 24:30), and the mountains (asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

The "great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea" (Rev. 8:8). This is the Mediterranean Sea. "Zeph. 2:4,5 says, "For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."

This asteroid impact and resulting tsunami destroys the army of Gog and Magog. There are so many dead, it takes some doing to bury them. Ezek. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD." He will be glorified at the Second Advent.

Jesus has to return on the following Nisan 1. Ezek. 29:17 sets the date, "in the first month, in the first day of the month" (Nisan 1, Ezek. 45:18,21). Then verse 21 says, "In that day (Nisan 1, first day of the Jewish Regnal Year) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (Logos, Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Therefore, the year starting on Tishri 1, 2007, must be a Jewish Leap Year, or there would only be six months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1. The Jewish 5768 is a leap year. Nisan 1, 5768 is our April 6, 2008, the anniversary of the Crucifixion on our calendar.

Incidentally, our son David was born on April 6. Neat, huh? I wanted to call him Brian and couldn't. David flitted across my mind, a name we had not once considered. I asked Ed, and David it was. It fits in neatly with Christ being the son of David, but I had no idea of the tie-in for many years. (My brother was born on May 31st. Strange things happen.)

That Jesus will come as the former rain on Tishri 1 the first time and as the latter rain on Nisan 1, can be figured out from Hos. 6:3: "his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." This is because of God's promise in De. 11:14: "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain and the latter rain." These rains begin at such definite times in Israel that they are marked on their calendars. (Note: Tishri 1 is the beginning of the former rain, i.e., Jesus' birthday. Nisan 1 is the beginning of the latter rain, i.e., the Second Advent.)

Nisan 1 is both the beginning of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year, Regnal because Christ will return as King of kings, Sacred because he is also Lord of lords. He will return at the same month and day as all the other Israelite kings officially took office.

Incoming Email

You're a Blessing, Marilyn. I appreciate your extensive study.

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© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 5-9-98