Pro and Con 974

Posted 11-30-02

Happy Hanukkah

Incoming email, Re: Shroud and James' ossuary

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Dear Mr. Schwortz,
From your web site I gathered the following:

Q: Has DNA testing ever been performed on the Shroud, assuming the blood stains still have traces of DNA?
A: Several years ago, some Texas researchers did a DNA study of supposed Shroud bloodstains, but the provenance of the samples they used was questionable and their results have not been officially recognized. Nonetheless, their findings concluded that the blood on the Shroud is from a male human. They also stated that the blood is so old and degraded that very few DNA segments were found, eliminating any possibility of "cloning" anything from the blood found on the cloth. Other DNA experts argue however, that so much contamination exists on the Shroud that no DNA test, no matter how carefully done, could ever be considered definitive. During the 1978 exhibition and scientific examination, the cloth was handled by many people, including most members of STURP, the Church authorities who prepared it for display, the Poor Clare nuns who unstitched portions of it, visiting dignitaries (including the Archbishop of Turin and the emissary of King Umberto) and countless others. During the five days and nights of the 1978 examination, the Shroud was continuously exposed to contamination as it lay unprotected on the support table. Every member of our research team, including myself, left DNA on the cloth. And remember, the cloth has been displayed and handled thousands of times throughout its history. Once again, the Shroud presents us with an enigma that even DNA evidence may not definitively unravel.

On the other hand, DNA evidence does little if anything to help determine the mechanism that formed the image on the cloth. I am not sure that it has much other value, except perhaps, to satisfy someone's curiosity. I personally see little merit in pursuing it and expect the Church will not allow any formal DNA testing in the forseeable future anyway. The authorities have already officially stated that any future research efforts will concentrate exclusively on the preservation and conservation of the Shroud.
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Even though the DNA from that very old blood is fragmented, would it not be possible to compare it with the DNA from the bone fragments found in the recently acclaimed James' ossuary (pending approval by the present owner, of course)? Given the few DNA segments found in the Shroud and also acknowledging the issue of contamination, conceivably such a comparison could yet be revelatory, possibly linking in microcosm and in truth these two articles which have attracted so much discussion and no little dissension. Even a "very few DNA segments" may be sufficient to give a probability of the brotherhood of these two men. Respectfully

My reply

Good for you. I hope they will at least try to see if there is any likeness. Agape

Incoming email

...During the Gulf War, Saddam Hussein launched 39 Scud missiles (like the 39 "stripes" given Christ before He spent three days in the Prison world.) (1 Pet 3:18-20 and 4:6) Those Scuds destroyed 5,000 homes in Israel!!!!! The miracle is that not one Israeli was killed by a Scud!
http://teawithterrorists.com/teawithterrorists/media.asp

Incoming email

I thought every seven years was a jubilee year. I guess I don't fully understand.
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From: 5 Doves site, Peggy Jackson 26 Oct 2002
"Jubilee is the Key"

...God's plan is laid out in 50 year (Jubilee) cycles. This dispensation will end with the next Jubilee year, after the end of the 7 years of tribulation. That 50th year will merge with earth year 6000, leaving the 1000 year millennium.

...Israel had her 50th birthday, but that was not a Jubilee year on God's sacred calendar. Consider this, if we have already had a Jubilee year, then we must wait another 50 years to end this age (dispensation). I do not think the world would survive that.

As far as date setting, I am not being dogmatic, it is just that I know how the ending of this age is laid out, and I know it all must end with a Jubilee year, and that particular Jubilee year must be a year with 13 months instead of the usual 12 on the Jewish civil calendar. So I can look ahead and find 13 month years, and back up to the 6 set, on the 6th year for man (#6) to be raptured....

But.......just because a year has 13 months instead of 12 does not make it a Jubilee year. For instance, 2008 has 13 months, but that did not make it a Jubilee year, therefore 1999 was not our rapture year. Also 2011 has 13 months, but is not a Jubilee year, because our rapture did not take place on Pentecost of this year (2002)....

The NEXT POSSIBLE Jubilee year (with 13 months) is 2014, which would back us up to Pentecost in 2005. The next after that is 2016, which would back us up to Pentecost, 2007....

I do believe we will know bfore we go, and even know who is going and who is not, Matt. 25. Also, I know that the cut-off time (for preparation) for the unwise virgins (believers) is on Passover, and that the midnight cry will go forth "between" Passover and Pentecost of that year....

My reply

> > I thought every seven years was a jubilee year. I guess I don't fully understand.

I disagree with the post you sent me.

The 7th day is the Saturday Sabbath. Every 7th year is a Sabbatic Year. The Jubilee Cycle is a 49-year cycle. The 50th year, the Jubilee, is also the first year of the new Jubilee Cycle. This way the Jubilee Cycle stays aligned with the Sabbatic Cycle.

I don't know of any scripture that shows that the Pre-Trib Rapture will take place in a Jubilee Year. The Jubilee was to be kept after they were in the land. There were 40 years in the wilderness plus 10 years in the land. That year, the fighting was over, and the soldiers got to go home to their families. It was a jubilant time.

Let's try to apply that to our times. If we say that they were 40 years in the "wilderness" from 1908 to 1948, then add 10 years in the land, we come to 1958. Adding another 49 years, we come to 2007.

Tishri 1, 5768 is Sept. 13, 2007. That year is a Jewish Leap Year with 13 months. Therefore, there would be the 7 months mentioned in Eze. 39:12,13 between the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008). That would be a good year for the Jubilee. It would be announced on the previous Day of Atonement, Tishri 10, and start the Day of the Second Advent. Daniel will stand in his lot in Israel on the 1335th day from the middle of the Tribulation. Other Israelites will too. What a Jubilee year that will be. The perfect king, all of their people that choose to live on Earth, all of their promised homeland, and peace, real lasting peace.

I'm hoping for the Pre-Trib Rapture in this year--5763. It started Sept. 7, 2002 and will end Sept. 27, 2003. Agape

Incoming email, Re: Fwd: 40 Day Warning

I forgot to check out this web address first before I sent it. What I wanted you to look at is the link that says "Warning! God Always Warns His People"

I do hope he is correct here. Food for thought and hope.
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> > WARNING! GOD ALWAYS WARNS HIS PEOPLE!
http://www.chn-net.com/school/chn_etabs/chn_presents/index_rap.html

when Jesus ascended, 40 days after He rose, he took with him those saints who rose with him 40 days earlier, those that were seen by many in the holy city. They were the token, of the full harvest yet to come, just as the omer of barley (the flour) , made from the sheaf's of barley picked on Firstfruits, and waved before the Lord, was the token of a full harvest yet to come.

That's what Paul means when he tells the Thessalonians, in chapter 4 at verse 16 & 17, that the dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive and remain are caught up together with them in the twinkling of an eye, to be with the Lord forever.

And in fulfillment of the shadow cast by that event on resurrection day, many of the newly resurrected dead in Christ, will be seen by many, just as they once were seen in the holy city

That is the warning sign God gave us to know that our redemption is only 40 days away!

My reply

> > when Jesus ascended, 40 days after He rose, he took with him those saints who rose with him 40 days earlier, those that were seen by many in the holy city.

We may have a 40-day warning, but I don't think those that came out of their graves on Firstfruits hung around for 40 days. Jesus took them to Heaven that same day.

In Joh 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Jesus ascended on Firstfruits and returned that same day. Later that day, he could be touched. Luke 24:39 says, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

When Jesus ascended, he took those in Paradise to Heaven. Eph 4:8 says, "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men." Agape

Incoming email, Re: Noah's Ark

http://www.insightmag.com/news/321357.html
http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=208686
http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=231435
http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=208687

Can you imagine the academic mental scurrying if, not only that the ark is found, but that it is found at these altitudes?

My reply

Thanks. Reading people's opinions after seeing the picture is enlightening.

"The Rev. Joseph Jensen, executive director of the Catholic Bible Society, wants to make sure any discoveries are put in perspective. "Finding the Ark might give a historical basis for the flood story, but it wouldn't prove anything about God's action in the history of Israel and the church, which should be what we mean by the truth of the Bible.""
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At present, all we have is that maybe the anomaly on Ararat is the Ark. That may be by God's design. He placed the Ark on Ararat for a reason. It could have been so it would be covered with ice and snow. After all, the just are to walk by faith, not sight.

By the Lord's design, I just happened to grab "The Complete Jewish Bible" to read on our Thanksgiving trip to a family get together. My grandson, sitting beside me in the back seat, sounded astonished when he said, "Do you read the Jewish Bible? I told him, "Yes." that I read every version of the Bible I can get my hands on, that I also had the Hebrew Roots Bible and the Stone edition of the Tanach, the Old Testament, that was Jewish. That led to a great conversation throughout the trip. He asked questions he needed answers to and reaffirmed his belief in Christ. Having been confused somewhat by a Jewish stepfather that he had for awhile, he needed to have some things untangled. Thank you Lord for setting that up for us. In Jesus' name, Amen

Asteroid threat reassessed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2496757.stm
By Dr David Whitehouse

11-20-02 - Every year a small asteroid explodes in the Earth's atmosphere with an energy equivalent to 5,000 tonnes of TNT, according to new information.

The assessment comes from researchers who have studied about 300 impacts from space observed by US military surveillance satellites....

Asteroids with diameters smaller than 50-100 metres that collide with the Earth usually do not hit the ground as a single body. Rather, they detonate in the upper atmosphere....

Positioned in geostationary orbit, the satellites have a view of a large part of the Earth and, because they are designed to detect light from rockets being launched, they are able to see the light flashes from space impacts as well.

Between February 1994 and September 2002, about 300 impact events were seen. From the intensity and duration of the light flashes, and some basic physics, it was possible to calculate the size of the incoming asteroids.

The researchers led by Dr Peter Brown, of the University of Western Ontario, Canada, estimate that every month an object explodes in the upper atmosphere with an energy equivalent to 300 tonnes of TNT....

Incoming email, Re: Meteor Deflected 11/1/02

By Timothy Snodgrass

On November 1, 2002, a large meteor was spotted was spotted over Turkey, observed by the flight crews of 6 commercial jets (4 in the air, 2 on the ground). Before impacting earth, airline pilots observed an "unidentified flying object" intercept and destroy the meteor, fragmenting it into "10 to 15 pieces", each the size of a Boeing 747. (The pilots noted that the meteor was very high in the atmosphere, and may have been much larger. At the minimum, if you add 10 - 15 fragments the size of a Boeing 747 together, you get a massive rock the size of a football field!) Six airline crews called in the sighting to air traffic control. The event occured on November 1, 2002, at 5:44 UTC, and was documented on the ground by video.... http://www.siriusufo.org/engnews/haber.htm

Incoming email

...did you see the email I sent you about the large asteroid seen by 12 professional and credible airline pilots on Nov.1, 2002, and they reported it was shattered in two by a UFO. That one would have done great damage if it hit.
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BREAKING NEWS
WORLD EXCLUSIVE !
http://www.siriusufo.org/engnews/haber.htm

(EXTRAORDINARY DEVELOPMENT ABOUT THE CASE OF UNIDENTIFIED LUMINOUS OBJECTS THAT WAS WITNESSED AND REPORTED BY SEVERAL PILOTS ON NOVEMBER 1, 2002 IN TURKEY )

A METEOR THAT ENTERED INTO THE ATMOSPHERE AND THAT WOULD POSSIBLY WREAK HAVOC ON EARTH WAS BROKEN INTO PIECES AND RENDERED INEFFECTIVE BY A U F O BEFORE IT HIT.

THE INCIDENT WHICH COULD BE CONSIDERED AS ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT EVENTS IN HISTORY OF MANKIND, WAS WITNESSED BY A TOTAL OF 6 DIFFERENT AIRLINER CREWS (4 IN THE AIR, 2 FROM THE GROUND) AND SEVERAL PEOPLE FROM THE GROUND AND WAS FILMED BY AN AMATEUR CAMERA.

THE DETAILS OF THE SIGHTING WITNESSED BY A TOTAL OF 6 DIFFERENT CREWS, THE REPORTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO OUR RESEARCH CENTER AND TO THE FLIGHT SAFETY DEPARTMENT BY PILOTS ARE AS FOLLOWS:

DATE: NOVEMBER 1, 2002
TIME : 05:30 - 05:45
ALTITUDE: BETWEEN 22.000 AND 36.000 FEET
LOCATION: BETWEEN AFYON AND YALOVA...

My comments

This breakup seen by the pilots reminds me of the breakup of comet linear when it approached the Sun. Below is a picture of the breakup of comet Linear (C/1999 S4). It broke up 8-5-00.

http://comets.amsmeteors.org/comets/lcomets/1999s4.html
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...More than a dozen "mini-comets" are seen - they are pieces from the comet's disintegrating nucleus.... http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2000/phot-20-00.html

Hubble Discovers Missing Pieces of Comet Linear 8-7-00

http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/2000/27/

To the surprise and delight of astronomers, the Hubble telescope discovered a small armada of "mini-comets" left behind from what some scientists had prematurely thought was a total disintegration of the explosive Comet LINEAR. In one observation, Hubble's powerful vision has settled the fate of the mysteriously vanished solid nucleus of Comet LINEAR, which was reported "missing in action" following its passage around the Sun on July 26. Though comets have been known to break apart and vanish before, for the first time astronomers are getting a close-up view of the dismantling of a comet's nucleus due to warming by the Sun. The results support the popular theory that comet nuclei are really made up of a cluster of smaller icy bodies called "cometesimals."

Incoming email, Jesus kin burial-box claim defended

Scholar insists he’s ‘very cautious’ in naming Christ’s brother
http://www.msnbc.com/news/839410.asp?0cv=CB20

...the museum’s display says the letter shapes narrow the time of the inscription to roughly A.D. 50-70. Josephus, the most important Jewish historian in the 1st century, recorded that James was executed as a heretic in A.D. 62....
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That fits. With all the discussion going on, I can't see why no one has suggested that the original inscription could have been done by a professional that sold ossuaries, and that the clarification could have been added by one of the apostles, probably Peter, a Galilean, active in the Jerusalem Church headed by James. Those two were probably close friends.

Ossuary suggests Mary wasn't a virgin

The stone box first caused a stir in religious circles when it was revealed it may have held the bones of Jesus's brother. Now, scholars are asking: could 'James, the son of Joseph' also be the son of Mary?

Bob Harvey - The Ottawa Citizen 11-24-02
TORONTO - The discovery of a limestone box believed to have held the bones of Jesus's brother James may force a re-evaluation of key Christian beliefs, including the Catholic doctrine that Mary was a perpetual virgin, scholars at a mammoth religious studies conference in Toronto said yesterday....

Oded Golan, the Israeli high-tech entrepreneur who found the limestone burial box near Jerusalem more than two decades ago, told a panel discussion yesterday that he plans eventually to send the small remaining fragments of what may be James' bones for DNA testing.

But he said that will not resolve the question of the blood relationship between Jesus and James, since there are no other known relics of members of Jesus's family. "There is nothing to compare them to," he said....

Incoming email

...Wonder if the bone fragments DNA compared with the blood DNA of the Shroud of Turin would show a connection...

My reply

That's a great idea. Hope you can get it to the right people. If this James is the half-brother of Jesus, there should be similarities passed down from Mary. Maybe the following could help.

SHROUD OF TURIN WEBSITE
bschwortz@shroud.com
Barrie Schwortz
3003 Glendale Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA. 90039-1803 U.S.A.

Incoming email, Re: canada.com Story

As a former Catholic, perhaps I can speak about this. The Catholic Church values virginity above all else, particulary in veneration of Mary. It tends to set Mary, and all priests and nuns, apart from the ordinary.

Official doctrine states she never had sex with a human male. This directly contradicts what is written in several places in scripture. The church explains that away by saying that the word "brother" in scripture actually means some other familial relationship.

I tend to doubt this, if the early writers wanted to record the Greek word for "brother", "cousin" or whatever, they would have used a specific Greek word for it.

I would assume there was also a Greek word for "half brother" but I do not know Greek.

My reply

There is a Greek word for cousin. Luke 1:36 says, "behold, thy COUSIN (suggenes, a blood relative, kin) Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren."

Jesus is called Mary's prototokos, "first-born son" (Luke 2:7).

Mat 13:55,56 says, "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his BRETHREN [adephos, from 'a' and 'delphus' (the womb); a brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote--brother], JAMES, AND JOSES, AND SIMON, AND JUDAS? And his SISTERS (adelphe), are they not all with us?"

Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save JAMES THE LORD'S BROTHER (ho adelphos tou Kuriou)."

James was not one of the 12, but (like Barnabus) was called an apostle later on--after he saw the risen Jesus (I Cor. 15;7). He was called James the Just (not James the less, who was the son of Alphaeus, Luke 6:15,16), because of his virtue (Eusebius). His martyrdom was in 62 AD (Josephus).

(ISBE) "In the Martyrdom of James the Just (compare Budge, II, 82-89), it is stated that J., "the YOUNGEST OF THE SONS OF JOSEPH," alienated, by his preaching, Piobsata from her husband Ananus, the governor of Jerusalem. Ananus therefore inflamed the Jews against James, and they hurled him down from off the pinnacle of the temple. Hegesippus, quoted by Eusebius (Historia Ecclesiastica, II, 23), and Josephus (Ant., XX, ix, 1), testify to the general truth of this. It is thus probable that James was martyred about 62 or 63 AD."

Jude 1:1 says, "JUDE, the servant of Jesus Christ, and BROTHER OF JAMES." Both Jude and James were half brothers of Jesus. Both are considered the authors of the epistles that bear their names.

Half is hemisu, semi. That's easy to remember because of our familiarity with the words hemisphere and semicircle.

I think the half-brothers and sisters were born to Mary and Joseph after Jesus was born. He grew up as part of a normal family so we couldn't say that he didn't know how it was to grow up among siblings (two or more having one common parent; Webster). He did it, and still didn't sin. Agape

The Southern Wall Is About to Fall!

by J. R. Church - Nov., 2002

...Gershon Salomon, leader of the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, sent a letter to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon asking him to “let the wall fall.” Salomon said that it is the “Hand of God.” It is the “commencment of a godly move for the collapse of all the strange, pagan Arab presence on the Temple Mount.”

Gershon Salomon has been called the “Temple Builder.” He says that he heard the voice of God telling him to rebuild the Temple on the night he spent guarding the Temple Mount during the Six Day War. Ever since then, he has devoted his life to preparing the implements and building materials needed for that task. He tells Prophecy in the News that it will be done soon.

Gershon Salomon cites a prophecy in Isaiah 25:12 that says: “And the fortress of the high fort of thy walls shall he bring down, lay low, and bring to the ground, even to the dust.” The context of the passage is clear that the Temple Compound has been desecrated and that God will destroy the “high fort of thy walls.”

Incoming email, Re: Jesus Crucifixion

Thank you so much for helping me. I realize the timelines I previously sent were incorrect.

I am now in sync with Jesus crucifixion on Thursday. I believe a correct timeline is attached.

I have also attached an updated Perpetual Calendar (still a work in progress). I'm working on accuracy rather than looks. Thanks also for your feedback on the accuracy of Corre's calendar. I agree it isn't correct.

You may already have this, but I also attached the USNO Equinox and Moons data for 25BC-38AD. This data along with the calendar will help follow my direction.

Using the Perpetual Calendar to derive 33AD, I modified it to show a Solar/Lunar version (attached as Jewish-33AD). (Note that around the equinox's Jerusalem sunrise time is around 03:30-UT [05:52 local], also obtainable from USNO.)

I find it quite interesting that the easiest way to determine Passover (Nisan-15) is "the first full moon following the vernal equinox". What makes it so interesting to me is that I can only figure out when Tishri begins by first determining Nisan. I think God was also helping us futurists look back by making Nisan the first month.

Assuming (a) Jesus died on Thursday, making Nisan-15 a Friday; (b) Jesus died around 30AD; (c) the USNO data is accurate for that era; then the conclusion is that between 20AD-40AD only 33AD has a Nisan-15 on Friday. If these assumptions are accurate then I believe that 33AD was the year of Jesus crucifixion.

I am certain that during their era, with the Julian calendar established as we currently know it (using 365.25 days between vernal equinox's) and also using their Jewish Solar/Lunar calendar (using 29.5 days per lunar month), that they could predict the exact day of vernal equinox and Nisan-01 of the following year. (A one-day correction, at most, sometime during a year might occur to sync calculation with observation, which could be done well in advance.) Basically what this means is that I don't believe they would have been a day late in correctly determining Nisan01,30AD to make Nisan-15 occur on Friday.

Is this in the ballpark of how you have determined it? Thanks Again

PS - I'm still working on Moses Exodus. I believe that Iyar-15 was a Saturday (followed by the six days of gathering). Any idea what day the Red Sea was parted?

My reply

Thanks much. The calendar I pulled up for 30 AD seems perfect. I can't open the file with the moon data, but if I have the perpetual calendar, that seems sufficient. I think the Crucifixion was Thursday, Nisan 13 (Apr. 6, 30 AD). That was the Preparation of the Passover (i.e., the day before Passover), not the Preparation of the Sabbath.

John 19:14 says, "And IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him."

Thursday = Nisan 13 - Preparation of the Passover - Crucifixion
Friday = Nisan 14 - Passover
Saturday = Nisan 15 - Unleavened Bread
Sunday = Nisan 16 - Firstfruits - Resurrection
Agape

My thoughts

I'm reading Job again in the Complete Jewish Bible. For someone that lived before the Law was given to Moses, Job sure had a good understanding of things. My favorite chapter has long been 38. Even as much as Job understood, the Lord showed him how little that is in the face of the Lord's knowledge. We have no reason to boast today, either.

The conflict between God and Satan was known. Adam would have told the patriarchs what happened to him because of Satan. Enoch, the 7th from Adam, was a prophet (Jude 1:14). His teachings are probably reflected in Job. Josephus said that Seth and Enoch drew the prophetic pictures of the Zodiac. They depict Christ as babe, man, Redeemer and King. Job understood these things.

According to Josephus, Adam might have been a prophet too. In Ant. I.II.3, Josephus said, "I will therefore only endeavour to give an account of those that proceeded from Seth. Now this Seth, when he was brought up, and came to those years in which he could discern what was good, became a virtuous man; and as he was himself of an excellent character, so did he leave children behind him who imitated his virtues. All these proved to be of good dispositions. They also inhabited the same country without dissensions, and in a happy condition, without any misfortunes falling upon them, till they died. They also were the inventors of that peculiar sort of wisdom which is concerned with the heavenly bodies, and their order. And that their inventions might not be lost before they were sufficiently known, upon Adam's prediction that the world was to be destroyed at one time by the force of fire, and at another time by the violence and quantity of water, they made two pillars; the one of brick, the other of stone: they inscribed their discoveries on them both."

From Adam on, those early people had far more knowledge and understanding than they are given credit for by many today. The Lord taught Adam, and Adam lived 930 years, during which he taught his family. Adam lived 130 years and begat Seth, so Seth was well steeped in the knowledge passed down from Adam.

When we read Job, we should keep in mind all the knowledge he was heir to in the days before Moses was given the Law. It's pretty amazing.

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