Pro and Con 98, Uploaded 5-17-98

Incoming Email

Just wanted to comment to you that when I first found your website I was skeptical of the Pentecost rapture date (had always believed the rapture would occur on Rosh HaShanah--based on a study I read some years back by Joseph Good.) Yet his interpretation of the bride being raptured, attending the wedding, and then spending 7 days/years under the Chupah (while the earth was undergoing the 7 year tribulation on earth) didn't quite match up time-wise with the season of Teshuvah -- 30 days of repentance and the 10 "Days of Awe"). Now I can see where the 2 raptures fit in -- spaced 10 years apart, which will indeed be the last 10 years/days of awe of this Teshuvah season.

Secondly, 20 years ago I had a dream about the rapture in which I was outside in the yard of my childhood home - just walking down the road. It was in the spring or summer (green leaves on the trees, blue sky, with white puffy clouds). From behind me I heard the trumpet sound and knew immediately what it was. I turned around and looked up and saw what appeared to be a GIANT right hand extended down to me -- I lifted my arms up and was on my way. I awoke from this dream with such a sense of the reality of it, I had to look around the room and ask myself if I was still here (on earth) or not! Anyway, the green leaves on the trees never quite fit in with a fall rapture (Sept/Oct) since by that time they are usually turning colors.

Thirdly, on April 9 this year, my job was suddenly eliminated with a severance package including 2 months pay. When this happened I began to praise the Lord since I had felt such a sense of urgency to be doing something other than what I was doing. (Most of my family think I'm the doomsdayer and won't even talk about end-time events.) I believe the Lord has given me "the counting of the Omer" to prepare or help others prepare for the firstfruits rapture. My question, though, is I don't have a good understanding of what the counting of the Omer is; what was its practical and/or prophetic purpose? (And as of today, there are 40 days left.)

I know you get hundreds of e-mail, but I didn't know who else to ask that had such an understanding of the scripture. Thank you for any help you can give me. God Bless you!

LOOKING TOWARDS THAT BLESSED DAY!

My reply

> I don't have a good understanding of what the counting of the Omer is

Here is what it says in "The Comprehensive Hebrew Calendar," by Arthur Spier, p. 11: "Omer: 49 days (seven weeks), to be counted from the 16th day of Nisan through the 5th day of Sivan."

Nisan 16 was last Easter Sunday, the Feast of Firstfruits. That was day number one. Sivan 6 will be Pentecost, the 50th day. That will be our May 31, 1998.

Incoming Email

From Abraham Forum:
Doug Pickrel wrote:
>
> This letter is getting close to home, you said, "As one Christian to
> another, what do you think about the possibility of two Raptures, one
> Pre-Trib, the other Pre-Wrath?"
>
> Answer:
> There are three raptures yet to come: Pre-trib., Mid-Trib of the 144,000
> sealed (see Rev.14), and finally at the conclusion of the Seven Year
> Tribulation, and thats what makes it so confusing.

> There are four resurrections still future: The first resurrection is a
> three part resurrection; Pre-trib (those who are Christ's), the two
> witnesses mid-trib. (raised by God), and at the conclusion of the
> Tribulation; the fourth resurrection is at the end of the thousand year
> reign of Christ, at the Great White Throne Judgement when the books are
> opened, and is called in scripture to be the second resurrection....
>
> Sorry for butting in.
> Shalom. Doug.

***From Marilyn:
Hi Doug:
Thanks for butting in. Isn't that what this is all about? all of us discussing things so we can all pick up what the others have been able to figure out. No one knows it all. Each is given insight into different things.

I can agree with you here except on one small point. You said,

>There are three raptures yet to come: Pre-trib., Mid-Trib of the 144,000
> sealed (see Rev.14), and finally at the conclusion of the Seven Year
> Tribulation

I think that the Mid-Trib Rapturee is only of the two witnesses and that the 144,000 are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture at the end of the 2300-day shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:14).
When I first found out God's schedule of end-time events in 1968, I thought the Translation of the Tribulation Saints was in the middle of the Tribulation. It took a couple of years before I got that straight. My mistake was mainly because of the chapter division at Dan. 12. I started reading there about Michael standing up and equated it with Rev. 12, where Michael and his angels drive Satan and his angels out of Heaven down to Earth in the middle of the Tribulation.

Later, I read Dan. 11 WITH Dan. 12 and finally saw the light. Dan. 11:40 speaks of the "time of the end." That suggests the end of the shortened Tribulation. Then Dan. 11:45 says of the False Prophet, "he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." That sounds like the end of the shortened Tribulation also. The False Prophet comes to power in the middle of the Tribulation, so it can't be at that time. Then Dan. 12 starts, "AND at that time (end of the shortened Tribulation) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE (day of Jacob's trouble), SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and at that time (when there is such trouble as never was for the nation until that very day) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake..."

Then I realized that this "TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME" was the Day of God's Wrath. Ezek. 38:18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass AT THE SAME TIME when Gog shall come against the land of Israel (the great time of trouble), saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in THE FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel (the "great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea," (the Mediterranean) Rev. 8:8; Zeph. 2:4,5: "Gaza shall be forsaken," etc); So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (sight, as in Eze. 36:31; Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and the mountains (the other asteroid is the "great star, 'aster,' from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" of Rev. 8:10 that annihilates Babylon on the Euphrates, Rev. 18:21) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

Rev. 6 starts out at the beginning of the Tribulation and ends when "THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?" The sixth seal was broken in Rev. 6:12. At that time, "lo, there was a great earthquake," etc. Rocks began to fall as a fig tree casting her untimely figs.

Rev. 8 starts out with the seventh seal being broken and the seven trumpet judgments starting to take place, including the mountain and star hitting Earth.

Guess what comes between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals when the Day of God's Wrath has arrived? Rev. 7, the Translation of the Tribulation Saints, all of them, the 144,000 plus "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations (including Israel), and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Rev. 7:9). "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION (the "TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME" of Dan. 12:1), and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God" (Rev. 7:14,15).

Shabbat Shalom, Marilyn

Incoming Email

I am not sure whether the facts about the blood analysis is on Wyatt's site.

It is however briefly mentioned in the video 'Presentation of discoveries'. They do intend to publish this + make two separate experts to take samples and analyze the blood and video everything, but something (state of Israel for one) is 'hindering' them to publish this entire news of the Ark of the Covenant at this moment. They intend to do it later, however. (Maybe after the rapture??)

...About the hour. Somehow I think rapture being at night sounds better than in the morning. Didn't Jesus say something about 'if the master comes in the night and finds the servant awake' being a good thing, and 'should the master come at third night hour (??? Can't remember exactly + don't know how exactly the hebrew /roman hours correspond to modern hours) and find the servant still awake - better still'. I don't know where from is the concept that he comes from the East. Saturn rises precisely from East at that night. ( 2.30 - 3.00 am Jerusalem time & horizon)

My reply

Check out my file at http://www.kiwi.net/~mjagee/blood.html. The blood has 24 chromosomes. Ours has 23.

... I'm not finished with this man's book (Jack Langford's) about Rapture on Pentecost at 9:00 AM, but night seems right to me too. How did you find out what time Saturn rises that night in Israel?

I think there will be a conjunction of Venus and Saturn that night, with Saturn in front of and hiding about half of Venus. Do you have a way of checking to see if that is correct?

(Note: There will be a conjuction of Venus and Saturn, but Venus is closer to us than Saturn. Therefore, it will be in front. I had looked at a chart on the Internet that made it appear that Saturn was in front. That would be impossible.) Mt. 24:27 says, "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Incoming Email, Re: Song of Songs clarification

Back again. I pray that the grace and eternal peace of the living God be upon you and nourish you in your work at this time.

I would count myself privileged if you are able to yet spare me a brief clarification. I know that you must be swamped at the moment.

I was following through your web study "The Rapture in The Song of Songs".

1. I agree that the first rapture should occur at 2:14 "Arise my love and come away. O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock [Christ], in the secret stairs [rapture]. "

So, next in Song of Songs, I was expecting a description of the Bride in heaven, meeting Christ in the air. Or dealing with those remaining being refined.

However, immediately following in Chapter 3, the betrothed bride finds her beloved groom missing and she has to go looking for Him. Then other amazing things happen as follows.

Song of Songs. Chapter 3.
v1. "By night on my bed, I sought him whom my soul loveth. I sought him, BUT I FOUND HIM NOT."
v2. She goes out into the streets to look for Him. [faith is actively tested]
v3. Then she meets the WATCHMEN. Shortly after finds Christ, her lover again.
v5. She beseeches the DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM [Israel?] not to awaken Christ until he pleases.
v6-7. 60 VALIANT MEN OF ISRAEL come out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke.
v8. They are expert SWORDSMEN, with the swords ready because of the "fear of the night".
v9-10 Christ make a wedding carriage, with interiors inlaid by the DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM [Israel?].

v11 The DAUGHTERS OF ZION behold the crowned King. His MOTHER has crowned him [Mary in heaven?].

The Question. Can you please help me understand prophetically A. what the heck is going on here? B. who are this cast of characters? Does this sound like a post-tribulation rapture scenario - where the Bride's faith is further tested [in the tribulation]??. Then Christ's white knights protect her from "the fear of the night", and escort her to the wedding in the carriage?

2. Who are the "Friends" of the Bride and Groom, that also seem to be major characters in the way that the NIV has segregated the dialogue into Beloved [Bride], Lover [Christ] and Friends [???]. What is their destiny?

3. At face value, all of Song of Songs seems to be a prophetic allegory of the end-time: from the wooing, difficulties, through to marriage, consummation and dwelling together in the Garden.

But I note that Mathew Henry doesn't classify Song of Songs as prophetic. And Donald Stamp in his Full Life Study Bible commentary intro writes:

"Many past interpreters have seen this book as primarily or exclusively a prophetic allegory describing the love relationship between God and Israel, or between Christ and the church, his Bride. Since the NT itself nowhere views Song of Songs in this manner, nor even quotes from it, this interpretation is highly unlikely. However, since several crucial NT passages describe Christ's love for the church in terms of marriage, the Song may be viewed as an ILLUSTRATING the quality of love that that exists between Christ and his bride, the church."

These respected commentators are reluctant to take the prophetic aspect of Song of Songs on board. Why?"

My reply

> These respected commentators are reluctant to take the prophetic
> aspect of Song of Songs on board. Why?"

Because they don't understand it well enough to put it out there on the line. Don't blame them. They don't want to be wrong. And don't worry about commentators that do not know what this refers to. That is the kind of thing that led to my total frustration long ago. I spent seven years reading approximately an 18" stack of books per week from the Seminary Collection at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles, La Mirada Campus. Those were the books the students at Talbot Theological Seminary had access to. BIOLA's library is great, really fantastic, BUT, there were several glaring holes in the information I was able to find. I had burning questions that I could find no answers to. In the really difficult parts of Scripture, commentators either left it out completely or went off on a fanciful trip that I knew could not be right. That is when I opened my Bible, put my hands on it and told the Lord that he would have to show me. The next seven years, I learned so fast that I felt like I had a tiger by the tail, and I was basically sticking to Scripture and Strong's Concordance. Later, when I could afford it, I added Hebrew and Greek Lexicons, the Septuagint, and Green's Interlinear Hebrew/Greek-English Bible.

Before I forget. Song 3:11 does seem to indicate that Mary will put Jesus' golden crown on his head as the Millennium begins. The Marriage of the Lamb follows the coronation ceremony in Heaven that same day. The swords of war in Song 3:8 are because that is the day the army of Gog attacks Israel on Earth. It is the day of the Judgment Seat of Christ. Believers in Heaven receive their rewards, and unbelievers on Earth receive their just rewards for their unbelief. It is also the Day of God's Wrath. His fury comes up in his face when Israel is attacked.

Song of Solomon 6:13 gives us a clue. First, it asks, "What will ye see in the Shulamite?" Have you ever noticed how questions in Scripture are to make us stop and really think? Then, it answers, "As it were (symbolic language) the company of TWO ARMIES."

There are two groups of the Body of Christ, wise Philadelphian virgins and foolish Laodicean virgins. There are two Raptures, one Pre-Trib, the other Pre-Wrath. At the time of the first Rapture, the wise virgins go with the Bridegroom when he comes (Song 2:10-14). The foolish virgins are concerned with so many minor things of life that they are not ready in time for the most important thing that could ever happen to them. Therefore when the Bridegroom comes and they are left behind, they say, "BY night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not" (Song 3:1). Also, "I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone: my soul failed when he spake: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer" (Song 5:6).

The army that was left behind asked around, "Saw ye him whom my soul loveth?" (Song 3:3). Some people will see the Rapture take place. Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was taken up out of a pit with rotten rags, our righteousnesses, wrapped around cords, Christ's righteousness), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established by goings. And the hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

It seems that the army that goes in the first Rapture is the Bride of Christ, and that the army that goes in the second Rapture is refered to as the friends of the Bridegroom. The difference is in the love relationship, those totally in love with the Bridegroom, who want to be worthy of him and do things for him as a wife does nice things for her husband, and those who are just his friends, who acknowledge him on the street but go on about their daily lives pretty detached from him. They feel that they know him well enough to come to his door to borrow a cup of sugar, but they do not invite him into their houses to sup with them.

In Rev. 3:20, Jesus says, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Thank God he gives them another chance to come around.

They get to Heaven between the opening of the sixth (Rev. 6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8:1) on the Day of God's Wrath (Rev. 6:17). Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple."

However, those that were taken to Heaven in the first Rapture are kings. Rev. 5:10 says, "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests." There is much to be won by running the race to win the prize of being called up in the first Rapture.

Song 5:1 says, "I AM come into my garden, MY SISTER (including the 144,000 Israelites), MY SPOUSE (Bride of Christ)...eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved." Doesn't this sound like the Marriage Supper of the Lamb?

Psa. 45:14,15 shows both groups: "She (the queen) shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the VIRGINS her companions that FOLLOW her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace."

Incoming Email

I just wanted to comment about the 'rapture' stuff on your site. Paul sent two letters to the Thesselonians. The first letter he sent caused a fervor that they would be 'caught up' to Christ very soon at the time. That is one of the reasons Paul sent the second letter - for further clarification. (note where he says "nor by letter as from us")... What letter? The one in 1 Thess. Here is what it says:

2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

If you read Daniel 9:24-29, you will see what this beast will do that was being referred to here. Fallen angels will also be here with the beast as per Daniel 8:10. There is not going to be a rapture in the sense of escaping seeing or testifying against the beast. (MOST interestingly, Isaiah 8:10 begins talking about the very same subject, and says in the chapter that we are for a testimony). If you escape, how can you testify? The last trump is when God's people are due to be caught up. (NOT MY WORDS): Corinthians: 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Also, in Matthew 13:30, in Jesus' parable of the sower, it was the "tares" who were taken first, before the "wheat" was gathered to the barn. In that parable, the one who is left is very fortunate indeed!

I have been keeping my eye on the cash/chip/card thing. It looks like there will be restrictive mandates soon. In Alan Greenspan's speech of April 2, 98, he just the same as told us so. Also, on March 30, 98, the Dept of Defense began to pay military people with MARC cards instead of cash. Directly on the Army's website, they speak very highly about a "brain chip". We definitely have something coming. It is better to be cautious in all respects and just say NO to the chip (but don't rule out that the mark may end up being something else later on). It is biblical to say that caution should be used, because of the prophet in the book of kings who was told by God not to eat or drink in a place he prophesied in. When another prophet lied and said that an angel of God told him to feed the prophet, God was angry because he disobeyed. He was killed by a lion. That prophet should have known that God is not going to give a direct order and then have the order overthrown indirectly. It is deception.

My reply

> that *the day of Christ* is at hand (emphasis mine)

This should be translated as "the Day of the Lord," as in the NIV, meaning the Millennium. The Day of Christ refers to the Rapture, and the Day of the Lord refers to the Millennium.

> 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
> except there come a falling away first

The word "apostasia," here translated as "falling away," means "departing" and was so translated in early Bibles, such as the Great Bible, Tyndale's, Beza's, Coverdale's, etc.

The departing in the Rapture must precede the revealing of the wicked one. The Holy Spirit is hindering his being revealed until we are gone.

> Isaiah 8:10 begins talking about the very same subject, and says in the chapter
> that we are for a testimony). If you escape, how can you testify?

The Rapture was a mystery revealed by Paul in the New Testament. The snatching away of the Bride of Christ will be a testifying in itself. It will be seen just as Elisha saw Elijah taken up.

Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was taken up out of a pit with cords [i.e., Christ's righteousness] wrapped with rotten rags [our righteousnesses), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established by goings (the Rapture). And the hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

> The last trump is when God's people are due to be caught up. (NOT MY
> WORDS): Corinthians: 15:51

If there is a last trump, there must be a first trump. The first trump sounds at the Pre-Trib Rapture on Pentecost. Rev. 4:1 mentions Christ's voice "as it were of a trumpet"). The Last trump sounds at the Pre-Wrath Rapture on the Feast of Trumpets.

These are the "two trumpets...for the calling of the assembly" in Nu. 10:2-4. Verse 4 says, "And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." After the Rapture in Rev. 4, we see the 24 elders in heaven. They are the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles of Israel. They represent the entire group raptured, just as the 24 priests on duty at the temple represented the entire priesthood.

These two trumpets are sounded by God (I Thess. 4:16: "the trump of God"). They are not the seven trumpet judgments that are sounded by angels.

> Also, in Matthew 13:30, in Jesus' parable of the sower, it was the
> "tares" who were taken first, before the "wheat" was gathered to the
> barn. In that parable, the one who is left is very fortunate indeed!

The tares are gathered into bundles to be burned. Think about the World Church and the World Government that people are being herded into even now. The wheat is gathered before the burning, otherwise it would be burned too. The men left on Earth after that will be so few that a child could write the number. How fortunate will they be to have to live through the terror of terrors that will destroy civilization as we know it?

Rev. 8:8 says, "a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea (the Mediterranean; "Gaza shall be forsaken," etc., Zeph. 2:4)." Verse 10 says, "there fell a great star (aster, star, asteroid, meteorite) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp." Rev. 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all." Babylon on the Euphrates will be the capital of the World Government at that time. The head of it will be the False Prophet.

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© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 5-17-98