Pro and Con 998

Posted 2-4-03

Prayer request

My husband, Ed Agee, is scheduled for cataract surgery in left eye Thursday, Feb. 6. Please Lord, may it go well, in Jesus' name, Amen.

Words of President Bush

"...In the skies today we saw destruction and tragedy. Yet farther than we can see there is comfort and hope. In the words of the prophet Isaiah, 'Lift your eyes and look to the heavens. Who created all these? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing' (Isaiah 40:25-26).

The same Creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today. The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. May God bless the grieving families, and may God continue to bless America." --George W. Bush

Faith of Two Astronauts Shines from Beyond Shuttle Wreckage

Janet Chismar, Senior Editor for Faith

As people across the United States, India and Israel mourn the loss of seven lives, members of Grace Community Church in Houston will be remembering two of their own. Space Shuttle Columbia Commander Col. Rick Husband and Payload Commander Lt. Col. Michael Anderson were members of Grace Community - and men whose lives reflected the Lord they loved.

"The Space Shuttle Columbia - A prophetic Message"

David Campbell (4 Feb 2003) The first reports of debris reining down from the sky were reported in Palestine, Texas. The map that CNN showed it's viewers Saturday had three cities in Texas listed where the shuttle debris fell. The first was Palestine.

Columbia broke up over Palestine, TX

My comment

The middle picture is a taped-off debris field in Palestine, TX. The bottom picture is a piece of debris 8 miles from Palestine.

Since Pres. Bush is pushing hard for some of Israel's God-given land to be given away to form a Palestinian (meaning land of strangers) state, it is strange that the space shuttle Columbia (meaning United States, or dove) broke up over Palestine, TX, on 2-1-03, just 16 minutes before they were to land at 9:16 at Kennedy Space Center, FL. The debris field is almost in Bush's back yard. It's enough to make me sit back and think. Is prophecy casting its shadows before the real event?

An incoming asteroid will destroy Palestine (land of strangers) in the middle east on the Day of God's Wrath, the day the towers fall. It will start to burn and disintegrate when it hits Earth's atmosphere. Small rocks will fall when the 6th seal is broken (Rev. 6:12,13). A burning mountain-sized stone (Rev. 8:8) will fall in the Mediterranean Sea as the main fiery asteroid (Rev. 8:10) destroys Babylon in Iraq.

Isa 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall."

Zech. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce ANGER OF THE LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (cathar, absent; i.e., escape in the Pre-Wrath Rapture) in the day of the LORD'S anger (probably the Feast of Trumpets in 2007). For Gaza (Palestinian area) shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."

Rev 18:20, 21 says, "Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone (one of two, the upper and lower millstones), and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."


When the False Prophet desecrates the temple Mid-Trib, he will be calling down God's vengeance upon his own house in Babylon. Zech 5:1-4 says, "Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (mgillah, rolling thing). And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll (the binary asteroid); the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits (it's twice as long and wide). Then said he unto me, This is THE CURSE that goeth forth (i.e., the 'flaming sword' of Gen. 3:24 that rotates as it orbits) over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it (symbolized by one stone tablet with 5 commandments on it); and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it (symbolized by the other stone with 5 commandments on it). I will bring it forth (the curse), saith the LORD of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6), and it (the asteroid) shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Pope who claims infallibility): and it shall remain in the midst of his house (at Babylon), and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

"Iraqis Call Shuttle Disaster God's Vengeance" (Reuters). Little do they know that Babylon will be destroyed by a stone from space (Rev. 18:21) in the approaching Day of God's Vengeance. Isa 22:18 says, "He (the LORD) will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country (Iraq): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house."

Jerry Golden Report 2-1-03

God is saying something President Bush!

Does anyone believe it was just by chance that this Shuttle blew up over Texas and fell in President Bush's back yard, in a town called Palestine, with an Israeli in it??? Will he see the hand writing on the wall, I hope so, because God is trying to get his attention. God does not want a Palestinian State, President Bush. Gen. 12:3
Shalom, jerry golden

Incoming email, Zion's Cry

A piece of tile fell within 75 miles of President Bush's ranch in Crawford.

My comment

2Sa 7:23 asks, "what one (echad, united) nation (the United States) in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations (in the Six Day War) and their gods?" The "terrible" may be Bush's pushing Israel into giving up God's land to make a Palestinian state.

In Joel 3:2, the Lord says, "I will also gather ALL NATIONS, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat (whom Jehovah judges), and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and PARTED MY LAND."

Jesus' height on Shroud

...I saw your article about the Sudarium. It is interesting to note that Mary's blood type must also have been type AB, which is very rare! Also, this refutes Ron Wyatt's claim that Jesus was a haploid being (only having half the normal number of 46 human chromosomes) He had to be fully human with the normal number of 46 chromosomes in order to have type AB blood!

(MJA: I think Jesus would have had to be fully human to atone for our sins too.) wrote,
> > "...Workmen hurriedly lengthened the tomb to accommodate Jesus' body, which according to measurements of the space indicates He was 5 foot eleven inches tall! "

Wonder if anyone has measured the height of the image on the Shroud??

Later: check out:

height, blood type (AB), chromosome type (XY) all listed!
(MJA: Here are a few excerpts, but see this excellent article for the whole story.)

A Shroud Of Mystery!

...Pia's sensational photograph showed that the actual image on the Shroud was a negative image!...How could a negative image be produced on a piece of cloth centuries before the invention of photography?...

Leo Vala, a noted photographic expert who pioneered the development of 3-D-photography, recently told Amateur Photographic magazine, "I can tell you that NO ONE could have faked that image. NO ONE could do it today, even with all the technology we have."...

"I was convinced it was a forgery" confesses Dr, John Heller of Yale medical school, the blood expert of the team. Today he admits, "NO QUESTION IN MY MIND! There was a scourged, crucified man in the Shroud."

STURP team member, Dr. Robert Bucklin, chief pathologist of the Los Angeles city morgue, states: "If I were asked in a court of law to stake my professional reputation on the validity of the shroud of Turin, I would answer very positively & firmly that it is the burial cloth of Christ....

...It is now being suggested that an unknown energy force was applied to the lifeless body wrapped within the Shroud, & that a burst of extremely high intensity heat or light for an extremely short duration-- probably milliseconds--somehow caused the Shroud to become a primitive polaroid film....

The image of a coin placed over the right eye on the figure on the burial cloth actually shows the coin was minted near the time of Christ's death...between A.D. 29 and 36. Christ died in A.D. 30....

DNA Tests Find Jesus' Blood On Turin Shroud
Electronic Telegraph

The Turin Shroud will be at the center of fresh controversy when a scientist details his claims to have isolated DNA from the "blood of Jesus." In his book, The DNA of God?, DR Leoncio Garza-Valdes, a former professor of microbiology, describes tests carried out by colleagues at the University of Texas which show that the "red" areas on the cloth, far from being paint, are ancient blood stains of a group consistent with a Jewish male. The book details the experiments which show that the "blood" on the shroud is ancient and contains XY chromosomes--which establishes it as human and male....

Gene segments from the stains showed that the blood came from a male with an AB blood type, common among Jewish people....

Height calculations of the figure on the Shroud vary greatly due to the difficulty of taking into account factors such as the foreshortening of the legs, the extended position of the feet, and any possible stretching in the cloth. The most common estimate is 6 ft 11 in. Proportionately, however, the head on the Shroud is 1/9 of the body instead of the average 1/8. Using this as a basis for estimation of height, Picknett and Prince concluded:

"Our calculations put the height of the man on the Shroud - at the front - at 203cm...Put in imperial measurements we calculate that the front image is 6 ft 8 in and the back 6 ft 10 in"
- Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince, Turin Shroud - In Whose Image? The Shocking Truth Unveiled (1994)...

My reply, Re: Jesus' height

Thanks much for the URL to a very interesting article on the Shroud of Turin....

It seems to me that Jesus' height recorded on the shroud could be elongated somewhat by the creases and vertical ups and downs of the cloth as it conformed to the contours of the body. Agape

(Afterthought: If Jesus was 6'8," he sure would have stood out in a crowd.)

MJA: Do go see the pictures of Christ on this site. I haven't seen some of them before. They must be done by artists working from the image on the shroud.

Scriptural Proofs of the Shroud of Turin! It IS Authentic!

...The "Sudarium Christi" (the "napkin that was about His head and rolled up in a place by itself") also bares out the Shroud's authenticity... and the identity of Who the Shroud wrapped in death. The Sudarium (or The Oviedo Cloth) was traced to the 1st century...and matches exactly the blood type (rare AB)...

As for other pertinent questions one might ask, there are documented and biblical answers. Jesus DID have long did his brother James...who was "consecrated unto the LORD" by "the vow of the Nazarite".

MJA: Best picture of the shroud I've seen. Kodak made it life-size and backlighted it to bring out the detail. Since there are "no microbiological signs of corruption." God has to be preserving this cloth and the Sudarium face cloth. Why? it must be important, and it's something man can't duplicate.


Shrouded in mystery
Christendom College delves into Turin's holy secrets
The Warren Sentinel, 2-24-00

...Christendom College is displaying a Kodak exhibit called "The Man of the Shroud," which details with life-sized photographs the mysterious Shroud of Turin. Believers say the shroud, which is protected in a cathedral in Turin, Italy, is the burial cloth of Christ. Others insist it's not, but admit they're not quite sure what it is....

Many of these questions can be answered by the jewel of the exhibit.

According to the exhibit, the linen cloth itself measures 3 feet, 6.5 inches wide by 14 feet, 3.5.inches long. The ghostly image it carries is of a man 5'10" weighing between 145 and 160 pounds....

Another mystery centers on the near-perfect condition of the cloth. Although the shroud has scorch marks from a long-ago fire, "There is absolutely no microbiological signs of corruption," Kazyak said.

"Even though it was wrapped around a dead man who was bleeding and in rigor mortis, there is no bacteria from the decay or decomposition from the blood or skin. That's probably why people have a vested interest in solving the riddle of the shroud."

Shroud of Turin Activity

Kevin E. Moran

...Kevin has a VP-8 image analyzing system to demonstrate the unique 3D image properties of the Turin Shroud. No other image of a human has ever been produced to show this result. Many people claim to have duplicated the process, but it has always turned out to be lacking. The VP-8 test sets the Turin Shroud apart from all other images.

Here is the face in 3D

The Shroud of Turin

The Mysterious Holy Shroud of Christ
...The man of the Shroud was about 6 ft tall....
...An AB type male blood has been identified (common in northern Palestine)....

From June 21-July 23, 2002 a major restoration of the Shroud was undertaken with permission from the Archdiocese of Turing and the Vatican. The patches on the Shroud from the 1534 repair after the fire in the Chambery Chapel where the Shroud had been kept were removed by textile restoration experts, and the Holland backing cloth was also removed. The creases were straightened. A lighter Holland cloth was used as the new backing and also to fill the removed areas by invisible patching. The repair experts were Mechild Flury Lemberg (Swiss) and Irene Tomedi....

The Shroud image shows the full front and back side of an unclothed male nearly 6 ft tall, with a beard and moustache. If the image does not look realistic, it is because it is a negative. The positive image is obtained by viewing the negative film!...

It was in 1898 the first photograph (black and white) was taken. Secundo Pia of Turin, a lawyer and amateur photographer photographed the Shroud using glass plates. When he washed the negative plates he was overwhelmed to find a positive image, and realized he was watching the body of the Crucified Jesus!. I have seen the bellow type large box camera Pia used, now kept in a Shroud Museum in Turin. It was in 1931 the first colorized photograph was taken (by Giuseppe Enrie). The true color photo was taken in 1969....

How Did the Shroud Get to Turin?
If the Shroud truly originated in Jerusalem, how did it reach Turin in northwestern Italy? We know for sure that the Dukes of Savoy owned the Shroud since 1453 AD, and when their capital was moved from Chamberey, France to Turin in 1578, the Shroud was brought to Turin. The last King of Italy, Umberto II of the Savoy family was its final individual owner. He ruled only for a month in 1946 and spent the rest of his life in Portugal where he died in 1983. Before his death he gave the control of the Shroud to the Pope. The Archbishop of Turin is the local custodian of the Shroud....

How Do We Know the Shroud is Genuine?
This is a valid question that needs to be answered satisfactorily in our scientific age. The Shroud image has been studied with the aid of the most sophisticated scientific instruments and analytical techniques. Further investigations have been carried out by forensic analysis, numismatic (coin) studies and by checking ancient crucifixion and burial customs, particularly in first century Roman Palestine, The gospel accounts provide a most valuable resource in identifying the Shroud image as that of Jesus of Nazareth. The total amount of investigative work to too large to be covered here; only highlights will be presented. Detailed information may be found from books published on the Shroud and from Shroud websites such as

All the four gospels cover vividly the trial, torture, crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Jesus, though some gospels give more details than others. No one else in history passed through all these five phases. In Roman times criminals were hastily sentenced to death by crucifixion. In the case of Jesus the trial was a mockery of justice, and the torture was excessive. Jesus had wounds received by scourging, the crown of thorns, the fall on the way while he was alive, and a spear wound after he was dead. It was his tortured dead body that was placed hastily on the linen cloth (instead of the usual garment) for a quick burial because of the approaching Sabbath. Yet there was time for a quick washing followed by anointing with spices and adorning with some flowers.

The following is a tabulated list of gospel references and comparisons with the Shroud. In Greek of the New Testament the Shroud is 'Sindon' (Italian, 'sindone'). It may be pointed out that the gospel of John mentions smaller pieces of cloth ('Othonia') used as chin bands. There is a facial cloth piece known as the 'Oveido cloth' kept in a cathedral in Oveido, Spain. This cloth does not show any image, but some blood marks are seen. There is evidence that this also came from the Tomb of Jesus. It is most likely the sudarium mentioned in John's gospel (John 20:7).

Gospel account Reference Shroud evidence
1. Jesus was scourged
Matt. 27:26 (also Mk. & Jn)
Body covered with severe scourge wounds, as many as 120 on the back (including the legs). Whipping was done probably a Roman flagrum. Evidence for two men whipping from two angles.

2. Jesus was struck a blow to the face
Mt. 27:30 (also Mk, Lk, Jn)
Severe swelling below the right eye; nose is swollen or broken.

3. Jesus was 'crowned' with thorns
Matt. 27:29 (also Mk, Jn)
Bleeding from the scalp; thorn fragments.

4. Jesus had to carry a heavy Cross
Jn 19:17
Shoulder wounds

5. Jesus' Cross had to be carried for him after a while
Mt.27:32 (also Mk, Lk)
Knees appear to be severely damaged as if from repeated falls.

6. Jesus was crucified by nailing hand and feet
Jn 20:25
Clear blood flows from nail wounds in the wrists and feet.

7. Jesus' legs were not broken, but a spear was thrust into his side Jn 19:31-37
The legs are not broken; there is an elliptical would on the right
between the 5th and the 6th side rib and appears to have been inflicted by a Roman lance.

8. Jesus had a Jewish lineage
Matt. 1:16
Shroud face resembles that of a Sephardic Jew.

The man of the Shroud was about 6 ft tall; had a beard and moustache. Perhaps parted hair. Middle aged (ca. 30 years old). Eyes appeared to be closed with something round.

Medical evidence
Death probably occurred by asphyxiation as happens with crucifixion victims. But other causes could also be cited. The body image would suggest no decay, hence no prolonged stay in the tomb. The thumbs do not show because they would be pulled inward by reflex action of nerves when nailing through the wrists. Nailing through the wrists alone would have supported the body weight. Popular medieval Crucifixion painting show nailing through the palms. Blood flow pattern confirms crucifixion. The lance would have penetrated the heart.

Pollen and flower fragments; wood cells
Max Frei, a Swiss criminologist examined the Shroud fibers between 1973 and 1983, and identified 58 types of pollen from plant species on the shroud from Jerusalem, Turkey, France and Italy. Some of the flower fragments point to flowers blossoming in the Jerusalem area in March-April. Jesus' crucifixion date is believed to be April 6, 30 AD. More recently tiny wood cells from the scalp area have been identified with Oak (commonly used wood for Crucifixion). A recently published(1999) book, 'Flora of the Shroud of Turin' based on Israeli botanist Avinoam Danin's work clearly identifies flowers and plant stems found on the shroud as originating from Israel; even the thorny plant used for the 'crown of thorns' has been identified.

Fabric weaving
The weaving pattern is described as a '3:1 herringbone', a rather expensive type. There is evidence of the previous use of the same weaving mill used for cotton, and points to a Middle Eastern origin.

Scientific tests
The 1978 study of the Shroud revealed the image was not a painting or the result of vapor action. The outermost fibrils of the cloth on the body side show the light yellow-brown color. The fibers appear to have been discolored by dehydration and oxidation of the topmost fibers closer to the body, resembling but not identical to a scorch image. The intensity of the discoloration varies in inverse proportion to the distance from the body. If some type of radiation was the source, it appears to have acted perpendicular to the body surface. The image has no distortion. The cloth had to be stretched flat to produce this effect! Furthermore, the hair appears to be flowing down as if the body were vertical. There is some indication of something like x-radiation producing image of the bone structure of the teeth and other areas. No one really knows for sure what types of radiation were involved in the image formation.

Reddish stains near the wound marks have been confirmed to be due to human blood. An AB type male blood has been identified (common in northern Palestine). DNA analysis has been possible but only about 350 of the three billion base pairs have been left in the blood fragments....

Iconographic evidence
Early Christian art and some Byzantine coins portrayed the holy face of Christ, and the earliest of these date back to AD 550, and is a painting kept in St. Catherine's Monastery in Mt. Sinai (Jebel Musa). This is the renowned Christ Pantocrator painting made with reference to the Shroud facial image. Then we have a gold solidus coin struck by the Byzantine emperor Justinian II in AD 692-95 with the face of Christ. Some holy face paintings held in reverence by the medieval knights also should be mentioned. Using a Polaroid overlay technique, former Duke University professor Alan Whanger and his wife Mary have studied these carefully and compared to the Shroud face. The points of congruence are significantly high, indicating that it is the Shroud face that is represented on these paintings and coin. This means the Shroud, at least in its folded form, the Mandylion, was known then. The picture below shows the Pantocrator painting, the gold solidus and the Shroud face for comparison. Other sixth century icons include the mosaics found on the ceiling of the Cathedral of San Vitale in Ravenna, Italy....

Numismatic evidence
The two suspected coins placed on the eyes are believed to be Pilate coins, small bronze coins issued AD 30 or 31. Earlier attempts to identify the right eye coin seemed to reveal the letters UCAI and a lituus (the auger wand with a top end like a shepherd's crook) at the center. All available Pilate coins with the lituus show the name of the Roman emperor at the time, Tiberius Caesar in Greek letters, TIBEPIOY KAICAPOC where the C, P and Y should sound like our S,R, and U respectively. It was thought that UCAI is an altered or even a mis-spelled form of Y KAI. A coin in the collection of Fr. Filas in Layola University in Chicago seemed to show the same letters. Later on, the coin on the left eye was conjectured to be a Julia coin (also issued by Pilate) with a simpulum (like a ladle) at the center. See pictures of these earlier identification below

Canadian numismatist Jean-Philippe Fontanille questions the above identification of the letters, and the identification of the left eye coin. He points out that the C letter is never found used in place of K in all the known Pilate coins. By enhancing the coin areas he has shown that both eyes were covered by similar Pilate coins; the right eye coin had the letters OY KAI APOC of the full name TIBEPIOY KAICAPOC (note the spacing between Y and K; the space between I and A should have the letter C which is missing) ; the left eye coin shows the letters TIBEPIOY. The obverse of the Pilate coins usually have the date indicator LIZ or LIH corresponding to the year 30 and 31 of the Christian era (LIZ and LIH mean Year 17 and Year18 respectively, from the accession of Tiberius Caesar). However, this side cannot be seen on the image. Two possible dates for the Crucifixion are April 6, AD 30 and April 1, AD 33 The LIZ coin may have been in circulation in April 30, and was definitely available in April 33. The LIH dated coin would also be available in AD 33. An interesting bit of information that may be added is that the birth of Christ is also given two possible dates: Sep 11, BC 3 (according to Dr. Earnest Martin) and Sep 27 BC 2 (according to Dr. Jerome Johnson). The latter date gives exactly 33 years for the life of Christ and may be the more reliable dating . For more details on these dates, read 'The Star of Bethlehem' by Martin (ASK Publications), and 'At The Right Time' by Johnson (Bathkol Books, 1998).

The following pictures were taken from the Fontanille web site, and offers the best numismatic evidence for the Pilate connection to the Crucifixion, though one cannot precisely date the Shroud from this evidence alone.

Image magnification and enhancement
With the aid of a VP-8 Image analyzer, Sandia Laboratory scientists John Jackson and Eric Jumper were able to show that the Shroud image has three dimensional features unlike a photographic image. The 3-D reconstruction of the body is shown below. The manufacturer of the VP-8 Analyzer who watched it had a life changing experience!...

(MJA: Go to the web site for the astonishing picture.)

Conclusion The overwhelming evidence is that the Shroud image is that of Jesus who was crucified by the Romans, but buried by Jewish disciples. The formation of the image is nothing short of phenomenal, and is still a mystery. To produce the perfect image we see, a lot more than we know had to take place.

FAQ Q: How tall is the man in the image on the Shroud of Turin? ...I have approached the question of height from the design point of view - an image which describes a 3D object and vice-versa, including the problem of foreshortening. I have also analyzed body type, muscle structure and proportion. I determined the height to be 5'11" to 6'1", give or take 1" for linen stretch and shrinking, both of which are possible. Because of the body type, even with shrinkage, the man cannot be under 5'11". I lean more towards 6'0".... Isabel Piczek

The Holy Shroud

By Francis Conklin ...The Man on the Shroud is approximately five feet eleven inches in height and of a powerful and well-proportioned physique. Concerning the well-defined facial features, former Harvard professor, Carleton S. Coon, has described the Man of the Shroud as definitely "of a physical type found in modern times among Sephardic Jews and noble Arabs."...

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